Mobile Version
|
Register
|
Login
home
|
speak out!
|
content zone archives
|
"speak out!" archives
|
vote on it
|
soap opera
|
pub crawl
|
links
|
contact us
|
search
Follow us!
Speak Out! - Gaelic Games
Notices
"Speak Out!" Home
|
Topic Listing
|
Post New Topic
|
Post Reply
Yesterday's HOT topics
|
Today's HOT topics
| Jump to:
All Topics
First
1
2
Last
Select a page:
1
2
PageSize:
10
25
50
Page
1
of
2
Topic:
Rebel County
Cnoc Sion Abu
(794 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 00:58
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
(From http://www.corkcity.ie/tourism/corkthemillenniumoverview/)
In the aftermath of the Wars of the Roses, Yorkist pretenders to the English crown (worn victoriously by the Lancastrian Henry Tudor, Henry VII since 1485) won support in various parts of Ireland, with one interesting and curious consequence for Cork. Waterford resisted both Lambert Simnel (1488) and Perkin Warbeck (1491) and for its loyalty was dubbed the urbs intacta, the untouched city. Cork however took a different line and earned a quite different, and eventually a more famous, sobriquet. Warbeck was supported by Mayor John Water and the citizens. A price was paid in the temporary forfeiture of its charter and the execution of Water, along with Warbeck himself, in London in 1499. And so the famous description, 'rebel Cork', was originally applied by the crown as a derogatory designation but seems to have been adopted by the citizens as a badge of pride. It was in popular use long before it took on connotations of republican resistance to British rule early in the twentieth century. The term was further strengthened by Cork's rearguard resistance to the new Irish Free State in 1922. Today, the slogan 'up the Rebels' is most commonly and loudly vociferated by Cork's GAA followers : most of them are blissfully unaware of its fifteenth-century English royalist origins!
deisejohn
(86 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 09:38
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
Originally posted by Cnoc Sion Abu:
Rebel County
good man CSA, rebels me hole
TheYesMan
(1 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 09:45
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
But counties in Ireland were developed under Norman and British Administrations. So by supporting you counties in GAA you are keeping alive an anachronism of colonial rule every county GAA person could be accused of that.
HangBlaa
(2,471 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 09:48
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
They are rebelling again against the CCC this week.
examiner.ie
CORK GAA chiefs are back in the Croke Park committee rooms, launching an appeal against a one-month ban on Rebel defender Noel O’Leary, imposed this week.
deiseach
(5,099 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 10:18
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
Originally posted by TheYesMan:
But counties in Ireland were developed under Norman and British Administrations. So by supporting you counties in GAA you are keeping alive an anachronism of colonial rule every county GAA person could be accused of that.
True. But ask a Cork person why they are called the Rebel County, and the odds are they'll give you some blarney about Tom Barry or the Republican plot in Kilcrumper. The looks on their faces when you tell them otherwise is priceless.
I remember telling a barstool Republican friend of mine from Laois, who thought it was highly amusing that Waterford city returned a Home Rule MP in the 1918 election (as if a Redmondite was a Unionist) that I wasn't taking that from a denizen of Queen's County, safe in the knowledge that he didn't know who the titular Queen was. And he didn't. 1-0 to deiseach.
With that in mind, anyone like to tell us why Waterford is 'The Unconquered City'?
sam
(8,946 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 10:19
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
And Jackeen wasnt anything to do with waving union jacks either.
scalder
(3,637 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 11:16
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
Counties are English creations but some of them preserve far, far older Gaelic kingdoms – our own county of Wexford is pretty much analogous with Ui Chennselaig thus the identification of the local people with the entity is in fact older.
Yerman
(842 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 11:44
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
Rather ironic that it's a mount sion man from Waterford pointing it out as you'll no doubt be aware from the marvellous museum in Waterford, it was actully the mayor and noblemen of Waterford that brought it to the attention of the british crown that the pretender was getting support in Corke
And of course the oldest surviving item of clothing (a hat) ever worn by a british monarch , Henry VIII, has pride of place in The Treasures of Waterford in said museum. Apparently Henry and the Mayor of W'ford were best pals, there's also a sword granted by Henry to his pal, in the museum.
And a long coloured scroll (about 30 feet long) comemorating the lineage of the British royal family which was made up by the people of Waterford hundreds of years ago to press their rights in British court in their ongoing dispute with the rival port up river in New Ross. They didn't like their neighbours even then.
Waterford were habitually running to mammy back in the "mainland" ;-) telling all about their naughty neighbours.
If you know yer history :-))))
JoNinety
(Power User)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 11:48
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
Originally posted by TheYesMan:
But counties in Ireland were developed under Norman and British Administrations. So by supporting you counties in GAA you are keeping alive an anachronism of colonial rule every county GAA person could be accused of that.
I'm glad I'm from a Kingdom rather than a county so.
Cork&Proud
(277 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 12:17
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
[QUOTE]Originally posted by deiseach:
With that in mind, anyone like to tell us why Waterford is 'The Unconquered City'?
Because it's a dump and no one would bother with it.
Can't wait for Tipp and Cork then ye Waterford folk will surely spot a foul stroke and we can have a whole topic devoted to ABC again, yawn yawn.
Just Remember that we're the boys from The Rebel Cork where the black and tans got beat.
Cork&Proud
(277 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 12:22
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
Originally posted by JoNinety:
I'm glad I'm from a Kingdom rather than a county so.
Doesn't beat being from an independent Republic though !!!!!!!!!!
Hope weather in the Kingdom is better than here in the real Capital, Busy building an Ark here today.
Yerman
(842 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 12:38
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
With that in mind, anyone like to tell us why Waterford is 'The Unconquered City'?
* Was it because it was a city loyal to the british crown for centuries so no one apart from its pals had an army big enough to take it? Did Cromwell give the place a miss - I thought there was a Cromwellian "by hook or by crook" reference.
Flog
(1,112 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 12:49
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
Originally posted by sam:
And Jackeen wasnt anything to do with waving union jacks either.
Are you bing sarcastic here Sam???
I am a Dub and have heard this "reasoning" on numerious occasions, but was always highly suspicious of its truth/origin. Why are dub's called Jackeen's???
Yerman
(842 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 15:10
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
Originally posted by Flog:
Are you bing sarcastic here Sam???
I am a Dub and have heard this "reasoning" on numerious occasions, but was always highly suspicious of its truth/origin. Why are dub's called Jackeen's???
* Story I was told was that Queen Victoria was so impressed by the number of Union Jacks (technically union flags apparently has to be on a boat to be a union jack) that greeted one of her visits to dublin that she passed comment on it. And subsequently the dubs were sarcastically referrred to as jackeens.
deisejohn
(86 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 15:23
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
Originally posted by Cork&Proud:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by deiseach:
With that in mind, anyone like to tell us why Waterford is 'The Unconquered City'?
Because it's a dump and no one would bother with it.
Can't wait for Tipp and Cork then ye Waterford folk will surely spot a foul stroke and we can have a whole topic devoted to ABC again, yawn yawn.
Just Remember that we're the boys from The Rebel Cork where the black and tans got beat.
Just remember it was a Cork taoiseach who "stood idly by" in 1969 and allowed the pogrom against the catholics in Northern Ireland.
Cork&Proud me hole.
Yerman
(842 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 15:28
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
Just remember it was a Cork taoiseach who "stood idly by" in 1969 and allowed the pogrom against the catholics in Northern Ireland.
Cork&Proud me hole.
* Previous and subsequnt taoisigh ha similarly "stood idly by" before and since.
And one thing you'd have to concede about the 1969 guy was that he was a good GAA man.
BTW, perhaps you should get some preparation H for your rectal problem ;-)
deisejohn
(86 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 15:36
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
Originally posted by Yerman:
Just remember it was a Cork taoiseach who "stood idly by" in 1969 and allowed the pogrom against the catholics in Northern Ireland.
Cork&Proud me hole.
* Previous and subsequnt taoisigh ha similarly "stood idly by" before and since.
And one thing you'd have to concede about the 1969 guy was that he was a good GAA man.
BTW, perhaps you should get some preparation H for your rectal problem ;-)
Hey Yeoman, at the rate you're rewriting Cork's place in Irish history you'll be having Michael Collins on the anti treaty side and having him shot in Beal an Atha!!
Yerman
(842 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 15:41
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
Hey Yeoman, at the rate you're rewriting Cork's place in Irish history you'll be having Michael Collins on the anti treaty side and having him shot in Beal an Atha!!
[/QUOTE]
* Sorry I annoyed you when I pointed out Waterford's sometimes pro-british part in history deise. As for re-writing Cork history????? Is there something I wrote that you've found to be factually incorrect?
Cork&Proud
(277 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 15:43
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
Originally posted by deisejohn:
Just remember it was a Cork taoiseach who "stood idly by" in 1969 and allowed the pogrom against the catholics in Northern Ireland.
Cork&Proud me hole.
What could he have done, invade the North and have Irish soldiers slaughtered, I think Lynch knew all about the gun running and that was as good as he could do.
Take the advice of Yerman and get that treatment.
deiseach
(5,099 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 18:17
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
"Stand idly by" - a comment that can be filed alongside "Play it again, Sam", and "Alas poor Yorick, I knew him well'" for in the Big File of Misquotations. What he actually said was:
It is evident that the Stormont Government is no longer in control of the situation. Indeed the present situation is the inevitable outcome of the policies pursued for decades by successive Stormont Governments. It is clear, also, that the Irish Government can no longer stand by and see innocent people injured and perhaps worse
(Source :
CAIN
)
And before anyone says it doesn't matter, it does. Otherwise people would not persist with the misquote
OneLeggedDancer
(3,520 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 20:21
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
Why are the nicknames of the people from some counties associated with the abuse of animals and fish? We have the Goat Suckers (I don't want to think), Sheep Stealers, Donkey Aters, Herring Chokers, Herring Gutters, Herring Pickers. The Scallion Aters must be a race of antisocial vegetarians. Anybody name them all?
EvoMorales
(1,823 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 20:51
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
The whole Rebel County is a misnomer. Some of the Wexford lads were on about it here before, but the role of the North Cork Militia during the 1798 rebellion in Wexford is a record of treachery and cowardice and should never be overlooked.
Yerman
(842 Posts)
Posted:
13-Jul-2007 21:24
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
Originally posted by EvoMorales:
The whole Rebel County is a misnomer. Some of the Wexford lads were on about it here before, but the role of the North Cork Militia during the 1798 rebellion in Wexford is a record of treachery and cowardice and should never be overlooked.
* The lack of knowledge of our own history is rather surprising and disappointing.
As I think you'll find there were folk from various religio political backgrounds at the time who did all sorts of unmentionable things. Scullabogue for instance was deplorable.
The militia were drawn from loyalists as an army reserve in the event of French invasion. There were Wexford men fighting for the british crown just as there were Corkmen and Carlowmen and wasn't one of the quips to Kilkenny that they p**sed on the powder in 98.
Wexford rose in 98 and good luck to them. Dublin rose in 1916. Cork rose in the War of Independance.
I think every county in Ireland had men that gave their life in the cause of Irish Freedom. Should we stop calling KK the cats as there evidently cats to be found in other counties? Should we stop referring to names like The Banner, The Premier, The Orchard, The Tribesmen etc etc etc?
Maybe it would be more historically,geographically, and demographically accurate to drop all the nick names but I think it's a nice tradition to retain. And we could still refer to The Deise rather than say The Squealers :-)
Only joking lads
scalder
(3,637 Posts)
Posted:
14-Jul-2007 12:13
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
Ahem - Wexford - more specifically Enniscorthy rose in 1916 too boys, last post the surrender in 1916 only after the British allowed 2 officers travel from the town to meet with Pearse in custody at this stage to confirm the order.
As for the North Cork Militia, like all Militia it was by in large Catholic and according to folklore, Irish speaking in part atleast - its the Yoemany who were drawn from the local loyalists not the militia.
And yes there was a Wexford militia and I believe it was based in Monaghan at this time.
scalder
(3,637 Posts)
Posted:
14-Jul-2007 12:20
Quote
Edit
Delete
Report Post
Post Reply
Originally posted by scalder:
Ahem - Wexford - more specifically Enniscorthy rose in 1916 too boys, last post the surrender in 1916 only after the British allowed 2 officers travel from the town to meet with Pearse in custody at this stage to confirm the order.
As for the North Cork Militia, like all Militia it was by in large Catholic and according to folklore, Irish speaking in part atleast - its the Yoemany who were drawn from the local loyalists not the militia.
And yes there was a Wexford militia and I believe it was based in Monaghan at this time.
Scullabogue was a stain on the character of the rebellion but don't forget this was only one incident with about 100 dead - the crown and local loyalist forces, raped, mulitated and murdered up to 30,000 people in Wexford - the majority of them unarmed civilians- just like people bending over backwards to "understand" the orange men people seem to focus on the rebel outrages in a disproportionate way. Scullabogue was an aboration and roundly condemned by the Rebel leaders - the opposite to the Crown were brutality and genocide was a weapon of policy. Yes genocide, killing 30,000 out of a poulation of 100-120k in a month certainly comes under this heading for me.
First
1
2
Last
Select a page:
1
2
Page
1
of
2
"Speak Out!" Home
|
Topic Listing
|
Post New Topic
|
Post Reply
‘We talk just like lions, but we sacrifice like lambs…’.
Whatever Happened to….
Anyone you know in your club?
Bin Tags Don't Make a County
‘Some a’ Dem’ Lads are only Dow-en for the Showers….’
Heavenly Hurling: How the Gods pass their time...
GAA Time and Real Time
Saint Patrick and the camogie princesses
Keats and Chapman at the Munster Final
Mass, the Mater, ‘The Dergvale’ and Mullingar…
More "Content Zone" Topics >>
More "Speak Out!" Topics >>