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Topic: Páirc Uí Chaoimh Redevelopment
The Baron (64 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 14:27	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
The Baron (64 Posts)	The Echo is reporting that the Pairc will be renoved into a 60,000 seater stadium. THE GAA wants to redevelop Páirc Uí Chaoimh into a state-of-the-art 60,000-seat sports and concert venue. The County Board ended months of speculation by last night revealing its plans in a submission lodged to Cork City Council for the Draft South Docks Local Area Plan public cons u l t at ion. Other proposals include: ● 400-space car park and team bus car pa rk ; ● Restaurant and dining facilities; ● Park and ride/taxi drop-off area; ● Warm-up and all-weather pitch. If these plans get the go-ahead, Cork would have the second largest stadium in the country, behind Croke Park, which has a capacity of 82,000. The Cork stadium would be bigger than the redeveloped Lansdowne Road (50,000), while also outstripping other Munster GAA venues. The new Páirc Uí Chaoimh would also compare favourably with English Premiership stadia, with only Manchester United’s Old Trafford (76,000) boasting a larger capacity. The plans were revealed at City Hall last night, where councillors met to debate amendments to the South Docklands blueprint. Under its ambitious plan, the GAA is also seeking to secure 16 acres from the adjacent Munster Showgrounds s i t e. It had previously been reported in the Evening Echo that the County Board and senior city management had held talks over a land transfer that would facilitate the transformation of Páirc ui Chaoimh. These talks were made possible by the local authority acquiring the 22-acre site from the Munster Agricultural Society via Compulsory
dubinhell (254 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 14:36	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dubinhell (254 Posts)	Why?? In Munster alone there is Semple, redeveloped Gaelic Grounds in Limerick, proposed redevelopment of Fitzgerald, proposed new Cusack Park, all on top of a new Toyota Stadium for the rugby. By all means add new facilities, comfier seats, better cark parks. But why add thousands of seats that will only be filled once every few years for the decreed by God Cork-Kerry Munster football final?? Originally posted by The Baron: If these plans get the go-ahead, Cork would have the second largest stadium in the country, behind Croke Park, which has a capacity of 82,000. The Cork stadium would be bigger than the redeveloped Lansdowne Road (50,000), while also outstripping other Munster GAA venues. The new Páirc Uí Chaoimh would also compare favourably with English Premiership stadia, with only Manchester United’s Old Trafford (76,000) boasting a larger capacity. The plans were revealed at City Hall last night, where councillors met to debate amendments to the South Docklands blueprint.
Luimneach Celt (766 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 14:39	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Luimneach Celt (766 Posts)	The GAA gone mad again! They can't fill the stadiums they already have. In Limerick there is a complete white elephant on the Ennis Road, yet they won't share with Munster rugby who would fill it more often the the GAA could ever dream of.
The Baron (64 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 14:40	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
The Baron (64 Posts)	Ya i suppose the only time that twud be filled wud be for the two Munster finals or an attractive Championship tie. You could also host Music concerts.
BLUE TOO (471 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 14:41	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
BLUE TOO (471 Posts)	This sounds like a great new developement. Due to the space they have and the current bowl effect used in the stadium it would be better than croke park. But i think it's time the GAA started running these stadiums as businesses. They should lease the place not just for concerts but also to the rugger and soccer crowd for extortionate rates to develope the structures in the south. On an aside there is no need for a stadium this size due to it's location. If a job like this is been done it should be in Thurles as it's more central and will be used more and take the pressure off croker. We would even have a stadium up to high enough standard to ask the dubs to politely play some of there games outside dublin.
dancarter (2,852 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 14:49	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dancarter (2,852 Posts)	seems way too big as thurles will still get there share of munster finals 35k all seater would be ideal, keep thurles for munster finals (PUIC can have the football ones!!) and use for Rugby and soccer. 60k seat stadium they could get uefa cup final or even a HEC final if this is kept for the GAA it will be an unmericful waste of money regardles sof arguments its our stadium etc etc etc conference centres will be massive boost for the city that INEC in Killarney keeps the town going for the winter months
up the hill. (277 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 14:59	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
up the hill. (277 Posts)	Originally posted by The Baron: Páirc Uí Chaoimh Redevelopment It is a amature sport, so I suppose the GAA have to do something with the money, but i think it could be a lot better spent, eg developing hurling at club level, more full time coaches etc.
Deise Vu (1,658 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 15:17	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Deise Vu (1,658 Posts)	This story must be more aspirational than genuine. These plans would have to involve the demolition of the existing stadium, plus 'acquiring' 16 acres of the Agricultural Show area is mentioned. Also mentioned in the article the capacity will be greater than Lansdowne Road which is costing something like €370M at todays prices. The new stadium won't get off the ground for two or three years minimum making these plans at least €500M worth. Is this some machiavellian plan to strap the GAA for cash so they can't pay players or is someone having a laugh?
dancarter (2,852 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 15:33	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dancarter (2,852 Posts)	Originally posted by Deise Vu: This story must be more aspirational than genuine. These plans would have to involve the demolition of the existing stadium, plus 'acquiring' 16 acres of the Agricultural Show area is mentioned. Also mentioned in the article the capacity will be greater than Lansdowne Road which is costing something like €370M at todays prices. The new stadium won't get off the ground for two or three years minimum making these plans at least €500M worth. Is this some machiavellian plan to strap the GAA for cash so they can't pay players or is someone having a laugh? I would imagine if this were developed as a minucipal stadium an old CPO order over the showgrounds would be easily got. Id say that is the only way this will get the go ahead is if it is open to all,
Deise Vu (1,658 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 16:02	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Deise Vu (1,658 Posts)	Originally posted by dancarter: I would imagine if this were developed as a minucipal stadium an old CPO order over the showgrounds would be easily got. Id say that is the only way this will get the go ahead is if it is open to all, A CPO (which is mentioned in The Baron's original post) still has to be at market value. Thats megabucks for that location. You are still looking at north of €500M. I would love to see it happen but I don't think even Frank Murphy could argue his way out of a €500M debt.
dancarter (2,852 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 16:31	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dancarter (2,852 Posts)	Originally posted by Deise Vu: A CPO (which is mentioned in The Baron's original post) still has to be at market value. Thats megabucks for that location. You are still looking at north of €500M. I would love to see it happen but I don't think even Frank Murphy could argue his way out of a €500M debt. I think the showgrounds is owned by the city of cork, not privately I would imagine this would be there equity input into the new stadium if it were to be municiapl €500m, Frank would have a go anyways
Deise Vu (1,658 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 16:37	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Deise Vu (1,658 Posts)	Originally posted by dancarter: I think the showgrounds is owned by the city of cork, not privately I would imagine this would be there equity input into the new stadium if it were to be municiapl €500m, Frank would have a go anyways I don't doubt it! I have seen some of the plans for the regeneration of the South Docks and hopefully it will come off, but I can't see the GAA ceding any control of Pairc Ui Chaoimh and I can't see how they can raise the money on their own.
rebelrouser (343 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 16:51	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
rebelrouser (343 Posts)	[/QUOTE] I don't doubt it! I have seen some of the plans for the regeneration of the South Docks and hopefully it will come off, but I can't see the GAA ceding any control of Pairc Ui Chaoimh and I can't see how they can raise the money on their own.[/QUOTE] I agree with you there DV, there is no way CCBoard would cede control to anyone else. I know they are fairly flush but not on this scale, unless they raise money through concerts and the like. I can't see them sharing it either. Remember we voted not to open Croke Park. Well, I didn't but you know what I mean. (gr) This message has been edited - 16-oct-2007 @ 17:00
dancarter (2,852 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 17:00	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dancarter (2,852 Posts)	Originally posted by Deise Vu: I don't doubt it! I have seen some of the plans for the regeneration of the South Docks and hopefully it will come off, but I can't see the GAA ceding any control of Pairc Ui Chaoimh and I can't see how they can raise the money on their own. thems the break GAA, they cant have it every way I actually dont feel strongly about much outside of my own little sphere but if the GAA try to develop this as a GAA only stadium I think I will organise an objectors group!!! The GAA could have squeezed 20 mill out of IRFU and split Gaelic Grounds with them which would have been far more sensible option for all concerned besides building another white elephant But you are right the docklands re development will make a new city of cork. IAWS own 40 odd acres down there so they are kingmakers on this but its a lovely area with a relatively good infrastructure so if done it should be done right
scalder (3,637 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 17:23	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
scalder (3,637 Posts)	Crazy, crazy, Croke Park have to finally call a halt to this phallic building spree that various county county boards have engaged in. 20 thousand capcity grounds, all covered would suit most counties – maybe Cork might need 40k not sure. Thurles is more than adequate for Munsters requirements and should be brought up to near Croke Park standards.
dodgy-keeper (3,496 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 17:47	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dodgy-keeper (3,496 Posts)	Originally posted by Luimneach Celt: The GAA gone mad again! They can't fill the stadiums they already have. In Limerick there is a complete white elephant on the Ennis Road, yet they won't share with Munster rugby who would fill it more often the the GAA could ever dream of. Well they certainly can't fill Thomond Park or Musgrave Park for run-of-the mill Celtic/Magners league matches Keep that Munster shower out of the Gaelic Grounds.
dessie-donal-kieran (626 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 17:51	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dessie-donal-kieran (626 Posts)	There is plans to make this a municipal stadium of sorts(rumours now i add), from what i hear the CCB are willing to give some ground, and in fairness i think the opening of stadiums has gotten over its major stumbling block in Croke Park. The CCB have never been afraid of making money, thats for sure. As said above it would have to be run as a business, no doubt about that, but if done properly i can't see a problem with having a stadium that size down south, would be great really.
dessie-donal-kieran (626 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 17:54	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dessie-donal-kieran (626 Posts)	Originally posted by scalder: Crazy, crazy, Croke Park have to finally call a halt to this phallic building spree that various county county boards have engaged in. 20 thousand capcity grounds, all covered would suit most counties – maybe Cork might need 40k not sure. Thurles is more than adequate for Munsters requirements and should be brought up to near Croke Park standards. I don't really understand your argument against it here. Cork already have a 45,000 capacity, Munster finals will be played there, and a hurling final would always get 60,000. If it is opened up for other events then it will more than pay its way.
The Baron (64 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 18:23	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
The Baron (64 Posts)	Depending on how the All Ireland hurling structure changes in the future, e.g. if there were quarter finals between Munster counties then it would be ideal for the hosting of such games. I always heard that twas Frank's dream to re-build the Pairc into a stadium that would rival Corke Park. He has re-developed Pairc Ui Rinn so that when the Pairc will be torn down it will be able to cope with the big club games. If Frank manages to pull this off twud be set a grand legacy for him. Páirc Proncious O Morchu ?????
a langer boy (2,578 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 21:06	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
a langer boy (2,578 Posts)	The Pairc certainly needs redevelopment and when that shower in the nearby showgrounds are paid off, there will be room to develop the facilities properly. I am not convinced by a 60000 seater stadium unless its a municipal stadium as it will lie idle most of the time! Thurles is up the road and most Cork hurling supporters regard it as their home anyway. In fact many hate it if we have a match anywhere else including the Pairc. I think the real battle over the next 20 years will be fought for the hearts and minds of the kids and the young children of the immigrants and in the schools and this money would be spent in coaching and club facilities as well as bringing the Pairc up to standard. Well you cannot blame Frank for lacking vision and planning for the future development. The Pairc was brilliant in its day and he made a major contribution.Many claim that the best view of a match in Ireland is still in the Pairc ( we wont mention those bucket seats, but they are a recent addition) !
I shot JR (453 Posts)	Posted: 16-Oct-2007 23:53	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
I shot JR (453 Posts)	Madness!! Ennis, Thurles, Killarney and now Cork all planning major expansions. Where are all the big game crowds going to come from? Who's next, Waterford? The 6 Munster county board chairmen should get together in one room, all drop their pants, see who's got the biggest one and then it will be settled. Let's not try to compensate via stadium size! These venues should be kept close to current capacities, but spend money on making them more comfortable (replace some terracing with seating, cover more stands, replace toilet-cubicle-sized dressing rooms with standard ones, etc). And in the case of Cork, spend a nice chunk of change digging up that crap playing surface and installing a state of the art one. Christy Ring wished to play all of his hurling in Thurles and many Munster hurlers feel the same today. The location, the playing surface, the atmosphere and the history make it hallowed ground for true Munster hurling fans, and I'm not even from Tipp. The Munster Council should put the millions into Thurles to make this an all-seater, classy stadium, but have all Munster Finals played there. Revnue would be shared more evenly among counties, without Tipp scooping in a bonus because the game is played in their county. All-Ireland Championship crowds justify the size of our national GAA stadium, Munster Championship crowds could easily justify Thurles being renovated to a 50K to 60K all-seater stadium. However, this is unlikely, the main obstacle being inter-county politics and the aforementioned size differences. Regarding a new P ui C being multi-purpose, it sounds like a crazy dream. Of all county boards, the Cork CB is the last one in the country that would allow foreign games into their county ground. Anyway, the bulldozers have already moved into Thomond Park and work is well underway there, so I doubt that Munster would even look for the use of P ui C, they're going to have to fill their new corporate boxed many times over to pay off that huge debt.
rubba da relic (86 Posts)	Posted: 17-Oct-2007 10:19	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
rubba da relic (86 Posts)	the playing surface in p ui c is pretty good now. a lot work has been done on it over the lastnumber of years. any new development would have to come with a business plan. concerts, trade shows, hotel....... etc, cork has advantage of being a major city (in irish terms) to support a major venture than any other munster venue, cant see it happening, not at that scale anyway
Western View (246 Posts)	Posted: 17-Oct-2007 10:20	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Western View (246 Posts)	Build it, they will come.
Psalm 69 (130 Posts)	Posted: 17-Oct-2007 13:03	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Psalm 69 (130 Posts)	PUC should only be renovated. It is a dump at the moment. Regardless of the history of Thurles, biggest GAA county should have a decent stadium, especially considering Cork compete in both hurling and football. An entirely new stadium would be a waste of money, unless the city council can some how convince the Frank and the CCB to hand over the stadium, so it can be demolished and re-built as a municipal stadium. I cannot see that happening. If they really did a good job on the existing stadium, it would be a fraction of the price of a new one. It is badly needed though. PUC is such an eyesore at the moment.
corkoniense (91 Posts)	Posted: 17-Oct-2007 14:03	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
corkoniense (91 Posts)	Hopefully with Cork City Council handing over land, the Cork County Board will have to rent the place to other codes on decent enough terms. Frank is a complete -------- IMHO (and as unelected secretary, should have no part to play in any decision on its use) but he has the sense to realise that it would be a white elephant unless it's filled 6-10 times per annum. Also civic and business interests in the area are rightly going mental that all major sporting and cultural events are going to dublin, the city council will be bound by their lobbying before they go handing over prime real estate for the renovated docklands. Think 60,000 is fine, Cork is not a small town like killarney or Thurles. It would be a pity if they didn't put in those retracting seats behind the goals to allow for terraces when it suits, just like in Schalke 04 and Borussia Dortmund

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