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Wimbledon live as Gaeilge - but not the All Ireland championships
Concubhar
(16 Posts)
Posted:
08-Jul-2008 17:34
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As a person who took an active part in the grassroots campaign which eventually led to the establishment of TG4/TnaG twelve years ago, I sometimes wonder whether or not our vision of what the Irish language television service would entail then has come close to fulfillment.
I imagined in those heady days that by this time we would have a service which offered Irish language coverage live of all the major national sporting events, particularly the All Ireland Football and Hurling Championships. This has not come to pass due to the failure of the cash hungry GAA to see beyond the mega deals being offered for the broadcasting rights of their games by the likes of RTÉ, TV3 or Setanta. TG4 cannot hope to compete with any of these broadcasters in terms of acquistion budgets or audience share.
It is ironic in the extreme that TG4 can broadcast live the All England Lawn Tennis Championships from Wimbledon and the Tour de France, both great sporting events from foreign shores, but is prohibited from providing the same excellent service with regard to the major native sporting events of the Irish Summer. It is all the more so given the commitment in the GAA constitution to promote the Irish language.
TG4 can afford to broadcast these events as the owners of the rights weigh the station`s audience share in Ireland as it determines the level of payments due with regard to these events.
I have no doubt that the GAA could accomodate TG4 at no cost to the organisation if it saw fit to do so. It could, for instance, offer a specific package - the rights to broadcast all their games as Gaeilge - in addition to the other packages it offered to broadcasters earlier this year. Given the failure of the national broadcaster, RTÉ, to live up its statutory obligation to the Irish language with respect to sporting events and the non existent interest in Irish language programming by TV3, I envisage that this package could be secured by TG4 at a fraction of the cost of the English language equivalent.
If this proves unworkable, I propose that the Minister for Communications, Eamon Ryan, includes as a condition on the `free to air` list of sporting events, those events which must be made available to viewers without additional cost, a stipulation that these events, which include the All Ireland finals, should be accompanied by commentary in both official languages of the State. It would be up to the broadcasters then to come up with solutions to fulfill this legal requirement but I envisage no problems in this era of digital broadcasting and it`s worth pointing out, for instance, that Irish language commentary of the McRory Cup Final has been provided by BBC NI on a digital channel as it simultaneously broadcast the English language commentary on a terrestrial channel. In this way, the State would be not be expending any additional funding to provide a service to Irish speakers which they would actually enjoy receiving. If I am able to pay taxes as Gaeilge, surely I should be able to watch my native games in the national language on a national broadcaster.
I also see that RTE.ie broadcasts the games live - but in English - as they are simultaneously broadcast on television. Why can`t they broadcast the games live as Gaeilge on RTE.ie, in addition or instead of the English language coverage? Surely it would cost them little or nothing!
I look forward to the time when the GAA and our national broadcasters can be as accomodating to the Irish language community as the All England Lawn Tennis Association and the Tour de France.
Micko Mc
(1,297 Posts)
Posted:
08-Jul-2008 18:03
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This I guess would have been plenty plausible until TG4 broke away from RTE last year.
And that was TG4`s decision.
How much of an audience would TG4 get anyways if RTE were also showing the matches.
You`d also have a lot of people cribbing that two terrestrial channels are showing the exact same things at the same time.
On the website issue. It would be non sensical to just broadcast it on the net in Irish. The vast majority want commentary in English. An option of choicing Irish on-line would be welcome though.
dubliner 2
(10,823 Posts)
Posted:
08-Jul-2008 18:07
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And in fairness to TG4 they do great work with the National Leagues and the Club Championships at a time when RTE is spending all its money on Premiership rights. I think you`re protesting a bit too much.
Diamond Geezer
(462 Posts)
Posted:
08-Jul-2008 18:17
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Originally posted by Concubhar:
As a person who took an active part in the grassroots campaign which eventually led to the establishment of TG4/TnaG twelve years ago ...
Riddle me this. If you`re such an ardent advocate of the cupla focail, why did you write that big long post in English?
Glór na ngael
(1,198 Posts)
Posted:
08-Jul-2008 22:19
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Originally posted by Diamond Geezer:
Riddle me this. If you`re such an ardent advocate of the cupla focail, why did you write that big long post in English?
Because there are few Irish speakers on this site? It`s possible to be both ardent and a realist.
South Limerick Referee
(16,613 Posts)
Posted:
08-Jul-2008 23:15
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I would hate to see TG4 blow their budget on games we already see anyway, at the expense of the other games that they show highlights of.
These include under 21 and minor games, national league games and club games.
Hold that Line
(3,117 Posts)
Posted:
08-Jul-2008 23:26
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Originally posted by Diamond Geezer:
Riddle me this. If you`re such an ardent advocate of the cupla focail, why did you write that big long post in English?
Considering I`d say 90% of the site wouldn`t be able to read a tap of Irish he may as well have written it in Urdu then.
Lovely Aghagallon
(506 Posts)
Posted:
08-Jul-2008 23:28
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Originally posted by South Limerick Referee:
I would hate to see TG4 blow their budget on games we already see anyway, at the expense of the other games that they show highlights of.
These include under 21 and minor games, national league games and club games.
i was going to ask is that why TG4 dont show any championship games. obviously so. yea i think it would be great that there were more games as Gaeilge btu at the same time i prefer TG4 showing the club games srl...
Concubhar
(16 Posts)
Posted:
08-Jul-2008 23:53
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I don`t think it`s out of the question that TG4 can have it all - the Under 21, Colleges, league and All Ireland championship. If it`s all about money as some suggest, then the GAA may as well drop the `Gaelic` from its logo - as it`s already after drop ping the CLG.
The fact is that people were able to watch Wimbledon as Béarla on BBC at the weekend - and in Irish on TG4. It was no skin off any body`s nose - yet the GAA through it`s sell to the highest bidder notion about the broadcasting rights, never mind the principles about what the Association is supposed to be about, is prepared to disappoint a significant section of its loyal following by not facilitating in some way the growing Irish speaking community on the island and beyond.
People should be able to watch the All Irelands in Irish and in English - and the fact is that`s possible except that the combined brains of RTE, which is obliged by statute to promote Irish and to help TG4 and could do so by providing them with pictures to which the Irish station could provide commentary, and the GAA can`t or won`t come up with a solution.
In Wales the rugby is shown in Welsh and in English. Yet in Ireland the GAA backwoodsmen and the RTE gombeens won`t oblige. Perhaps Minister Ryan will do so by compelling RTE to broadcast the games and other sporting events in Irish and in English by including this condition on the `free to air` list.
dubliner 2
(10,823 Posts)
Posted:
09-Jul-2008 00:04
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Originally posted by Concubhar:
Yet in Ireland the GAA backwoodsmen and the RTE gombeens won`t oblige.
FFS it`s this type of Facist attitude to the language that has it where it is. The Irish language needs to be promoted in a positive way and this type of nonsensical name calling only turns people off. The GAA`s committment to Irish is luke warm and always has been. Anyway, it`s a sporting organisation primarily. It should be sorting out the huge problems re: the promotion of hurling and let other people sort out the language.
Micko Mc
(1,297 Posts)
Posted:
09-Jul-2008 00:39
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Celtic league games in wales are only broadcast in Welsh.
I agree with dubliner. The GAA is primarily a sporting organisation.
TG4 give incredible coverage of GAA already and through this is supporing the Irish language.
In ways I still find it amazing that Minor matches are still commentated on in Irish on RTE. Shows RTE are trying to do their part too. That said, I have no idea what Micheal O`Shea is on about half the time.
dubliner 2
(10,823 Posts)
Posted:
09-Jul-2008 00:55
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I should point out that I`m a fluent Irish speaker but that`s due to good teaching, several trips to the Gaeltacht and an effort to maintain my fluency. The GAA had nothing to do with it.
seosamh
(161 Posts)
Posted:
09-Jul-2008 04:58
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Originally posted by Micko Mc:
Celtic league games in wales are only broadcast in Welsh.
I agree with dubliner. The GAA is primarily a sporting organisation.
Yes, an -Irish- sporting organisation. founded to promote Irish sport and culture.
I don`t think Concubhar`s points are ridiculous at all.
Diamond Geezer
(462 Posts)
Posted:
09-Jul-2008 08:38
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Originally posted by Glór na ngael:
Because there are few Irish speakers on this site? It`s possible to be both ardent and a realist.
That would suggest there`s little point in broadcasting commentaries and match analysis in a language hardly anybody can understand. I got an A in Irish in the leaving and was fluent in it when I left school. I`ve hardly spoken a word of it since and have forgotten most of it, but I`m sure I`d pick it up again fairly quickly with a trip to the gaeltacht. Sad as it is to say, I see no point in this and would much prefer to have come out of school fluent in some other language - Italian or Spanish - instead.
tram
(70 Posts)
Posted:
09-Jul-2008 09:01
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One problem is that if the GAA sold the rights to TG4 at a far lower price that what TV3 or RTÉ were offering there would be cries of the GAA not maximising its market potential - not to mention the cries of lack of accommodation for English speakers.
At the very least what could be done is that if RTÉ Television is showing live a game that RnaG is giving simultaneous commentary on, RTÉ should be allowing the option of RnaG commentary over their own pictures on digital TV platforms. This shouldn`t be too difficult to do on satellite and can be done with a little more effort on cable.
Concubhar
(16 Posts)
Posted:
09-Jul-2008 09:12
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The GAA has always prided itself on the `cúpla focal`. But it has rarely gone beyond that. It took the likes of Dara Ó CInneide, Páidí Ó Sé, Joe Connolly and Seán Óg Ó hAilpín (a Fijian! ) to remind them on All Ireland Day that the Irish is a language which merits more than the `cúpla focal`.
I don`t see anything fascist in my comments - the GAA has as Rule Number 4 in its constitution that it would promote the Irish language. Perhaps after getting rid of Rule 21 and Rule 42, it should now apply itself to getting rid of Rule 4! I don`t see any point in it having a Rule committing itself to promoting Irish unless it facilitates in someway the broadcast of its big games live in Irish.
This is not meant to discommode the likes of Diamond Geezer who are obviously more comfortable with GAA matches in English [or Italian or Spanish?] - it`s meant to facilitate the growing number of Irish speakers in this country, as evidenced by the rising number of Gaelscoileanna throughout the country. It would not mean Irish only commentary. It`s possible in this age of digital TV to have both - the BBC does it every St Patrick`s Day with the McRory Cup. It broadcasts the match on BBC 2 with commentary in English and a facility is available through the `red` button on satellite remote control to allow you switch on the commentary as Gaeilge instead.
[It`s worth pointing out that several of these Gaelscoileanna started off in GAA clubs - many GAA clubs throughout Ireland have been more than helpful to the local Irish language community, it`s just the leadership at national level that I`m getting at.]
dubliner 2
(10,823 Posts)
Posted:
09-Jul-2008 09:39
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Referring to people as backwoodsmen and gombeenmen does nothing to help your argument. Maybe when RTE has a digital channel this might be possible. I still think the money would be better spent.
Concubhar
(16 Posts)
Posted:
09-Jul-2008 10:05
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I`m sorry Dubliner that the language offended you or others. I have to say that I`m a bit argumentative and I should have kept that incendiary powder dry. This was my first post on AFR and I misjudged the mood and went in a bit harder than I should have.
I have to say that I am disappointed with the attitude of both the GAA, with its avowed commitment to the Irish language, and RTÉ, with its statutory obligation to the language. I would have thought they would have seen the possibilities a long way back.
It`s still not too late. While we wait for a digital channel on RTE TV, we could have it as Gaeilge on the web and as Béarla on the TV. That would be a start. The national broadcaster only has the rights for the island and therefore the web broadcast of the match does not go beyond these shores. In that context, there would be nobody who would be watching it on the web who couldn`t get the match on TV.
Tram`s point is valid though there is a problem with it. While RnaG give excellent coverage of GAA games and the All Ireland championship in particular, it is station with a local and national remit. Therefore, in the middle of an All Ireland championship game, it could go to a venue in Cois Fharraige or Donegal for some commentary from there on a local derby. That would spoil the commentary on the big game for those watching it on a digital channel and may end up restricting the coverage offered by RnaG on big match days to local Gaeltacht clubs, like my own, Naomh Abán of Baile Mhuirne. No doubt the RnaG talent, like Pádraig O Sé, Mícheál O Sé and co will be pressed into service on this if it comes about.
I think there`s a great opportunity here for the GAA to boost the Irish language immeasurably and, if they were to create a new package of broadcasting rights, ie the right to broadcast the big games as Gaeilge, it could give TG4 a way in without breaking their bank and it wouldn`t put out the big players too much as they believe as some have said on this forum that 90% of the audience would watch it as Béarla anyway.
A win win situation for everybody...who could resist that?
postman
(869 Posts)
Posted:
09-Jul-2008 11:13
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Cuidím leis an rún seo. I agree with this motion. Is é mo thuraim nach bhfuil a lán gaeilge in an "GAA".
The Sunday Game should have a least some cúpla focail.
highballvolvic
(337 Posts)
Posted:
09-Jul-2008 11:33
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waste of money to have ai final on tg4, fair play to you you are passionate about the language but im afraid you are in a small minority, most people myself included would not understand the commentary
i don`t understand them having wimbledon either, what a waste of money id like to see the stats on the viewing figures they got when it was available on bbc, it doesn`t make sense, did they get it free?
scalder
(3,637 Posts)
Posted:
09-Jul-2008 11:35
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I have no arguement with the GAA really in realtion to this, I do think the GAA should be a conduit for the promotion of Irish but maybe they should just provide a conducive environement and allow other agencies to come in and work with clubs because really with the state of hurling they have enough to be getting on with.
I think RTÉ should be doing more and not washing their hands now that we have TG4, they should be tasked with mainstreaming Irish more, you see how they can do this during Sheachtain na Gaeilge but why only for 1 week?? During this week we see Irish being used extensively and in a way that does not alienate the non speakers but in a way that increases its visibility and makes it more ‘usual. ’
I’d like to see TG4 taking up more minor games and under-21 games, they took up the semi final and final of the Leinster u-21 hurling in recent years but didn’t cover the semis this year.
Concubhar
(16 Posts)
Posted:
09-Jul-2008 11:59
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Dá labhródh bean leat ná ísleofá do ghuth
Dá mbeadh an bean réasúnta, ná réasúnófaí thú!
I am reminded of these two lines from Seán Ó Riordáin`s famous poem Saoirse on the virtues of being reasonable.
I do think that the GAA have a responsibility in regard to the Irish language, as the premier voluntary organisation in the country. It has an enormous influence to bring to bear on Irish life and if it could do this, if it would do this, for the Irish language, it would be great.
Now some are saying they wouldn`t understand the commentary as Gaeilge. That`s not a problem. This is for people who want it as Gaeilge - the English language commentary would still be broadcast. This is an additional service.
Getting GAA/RTE to act on this, whatever happens with TG4, would mainstream Irish like nothing else has and, contrary to some assumptions, it wouldn`t cost much. All you`re talking about is the price of a commentary team and their technical back up. Getting the Irish language into every sitting room into the country in a way which associates the language with the most popular feature of Irish life for that is good value.
tipptopIRL
(521 Posts)
Posted:
09-Jul-2008 13:53
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Originally posted by Diamond Geezer:
Riddle me this. If you`re such an ardent advocate of the cupla focail, why did you write that big long post in English?
Because 90% of people would have severe diffuculty reading it.
nlgbbbblth
(3,600 Posts)
Posted:
09-Jul-2008 21:12
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In the early 1980s the All Ireland finals in both hurling and football were simulataneously broadcast in Irish on RTE 2.
See no harm in TG4 doing the same.
ballygowan
(1,987 Posts)
Posted:
10-Jul-2008 12:51
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Originally posted by Micko Mc:
Celtic league games in wales are only broadcast in Welsh.
I agree with dubliner. The GAA is primarily a sporting organisation.
TG4 give incredible coverage of GAA already and through this is supporing the Irish language.
In ways I still find it amazing that Minor matches are still commentated on in Irish on RTE. Shows RTE are trying to do their part too. That said, I have no idea what Micheal O`Shea is on about half the time.
Michéal Ó Sé is some legend though. A few years ago they tried putting Marty Morrissey as a co-commentator along with him on the minor matches and it really didn`t work, showed what a poor commentator Marty really is. To understand commentary the only words you need to understand are:
crinn
crua
moltoir
ard
I think these are the only words I know but you can really get the gist of what the commentators are saying even with pidgin Irish. Commentators on TG4 really good too. I love the club championship games on TG4 in the autumn. Pure grit.
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