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Topic: Offaly V Waterford under 21 1992
camann (1,732 Posts)	Posted: 13-Nov-2008 16:38	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
camann (1,732 Posts)	Contrast the fortunes of both teams. Of the Waterford team Tony Browne, Fergal Hartley and Paul Flynn all went on to have great careers. Mark O`Sullivan, Johnny Brennar , Tony Fives, Ray Barry, Micheal Hubbard and Sean Daly all went on to play Senior for a short while. Did the loss to Kerry destroy the momentum that this win had? We didn`t win a game senior after it until 98 against Tipp up in Cork. Meanwhile Offaly won two All Irelands in this period. Brian Whelahan stood out even then as something great. they had Kevin Kenihan , Hubert Rigney, John Troy, Kevin Martin and Johnny Dooley that all had good careers with the Faithful. What happend Waterford?
Giveitfong (327 Posts)	Posted: 16-Nov-2008 22:10	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Giveitfong (327 Posts)	The answer to this question is simple: George Leahy. In my view, Waterford were desperately unfortunate to have him in charge at such a crucial time. It should be remembered that, not only did Waterford have good young players coming through from the 1992 minor and under-21 teams, but the senior team already had some excellent players in the likes of Sean Cullinane, Jimmy Beresford, Stephen Frampton, Brian Greene, Dáithí Foran, Shane Ahearne, Liam O`Connor and John Meaney. Growler Daly and Johnny Brenner were also established members of the senior team by then, and both were potentially magnificent players. In 1992 Waterford beat Clare after a replay in the first round of the Munster championship and faced up to Limerick in the semi-final in Thurles. Brenner wasn`t able to participate fully in training due to exam commitments in UCC and was on the bench for that game. Early in the second half Waterford were motoring well when midfielder Brian Greene had to go off injured. It should have been a straight swap for Brenner, but instead Leahy (who was in his first year of three in charge ) changed the whole forward line and midfield around to bring in an ineffectual player at corner forward. Waterford lost their momentum and the game by a goal. The tragedy of this first major example of Leahy`s ineptitude was that, the following Wednesday, Brenner played Brian Corcoran off the pitch in the Munster under-21 semifinal in Walsh Park, the win that sent them on their way to All-Ireland glory. Corcoran, if my memory serves, went on to get an All-Star in that year. The following year, of course, Leahy presided over Waterford`s worst-ever championship result when they lost to Kerry in Walsh Park. Despite this result, Leahy stayed on in charge and several key players drifted away, the biggest losses being Daly and Brenner. In my view, if Waterford had good management then, they would have made the Munster final at least in 1992 and, with the likes of Daly and Brenner still there and Tony Browne, Fergal Hartley and Paul Flynn to come in, Waterford would most likely have made the breakthrough much earlier than they eventually did. Clare, whom Waterford beat in 1992, and Limerick, whom Waterford should have beaten, went on to share the Munster championship between them between 1994-1998. What a truly epic decade the 1990s would have been if Waterford had been able to realise their potential in that period.
South Limerick Referee (16,613 Posts)	Posted: 16-Nov-2008 22:15	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
South Limerick Referee (16,613 Posts)	Waterford gave Limerick a right rattle in 1994 though. I remember Ger Harris doing a lot of damage.
Beardy J (437 Posts)	Posted: 17-Nov-2008 01:18	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Beardy J (437 Posts)	Bit unfair on Georgie Leahy - led Glenmore to All Ireland club glory & James Stephens too if im not mistaken. Anyone who leads 2 separate teams to all Ireland success must be considered an excellent manager.
uisceford (531 Posts)	Posted: 17-Nov-2008 08:46	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
uisceford (531 Posts)	You forgot to mention Ray Barry. great post by the way.... To single out one particular point that caused this to go wrong is hard...There are obviously a number of factors... I think in waterford sucess was expected after winning under 21, that the team would fit in and peak after they played together at senior for a few years..I remember they were getting organised in 96 when tipp bet them in walsh park in the championship and they lost by 6-7 points to limerick in 97 where they showed new signs of organisation..... Offally had a real small group of fantastic players that gelled quickly and then won all irelands Originally posted by camann: Contrast the fortunes of both teams. Of the Waterford team Tony Browne, Fergal Hartley and Paul Flynn all went on to have great careers. Mark O`Sullivan, Johnny Brennar , Tony Fives, Ray Barry, Micheal Hubbard and Sean Daly all went on to play Senior for a short while. Did the loss to Kerry destroy the momentum that this win had? We didn`t win a game senior after it until 98 against Tipp up in Cork. Meanwhile Offaly won two All Irelands in this period. Brian Whelahan stood out even then as something great. they had Kevin Kenihan , Hubert Rigney, John Troy, Kevin Martin and Johnny Dooley that all had good careers with the Faithful. What happend Waterford?
camann (1,732 Posts)	Posted: 17-Nov-2008 14:43	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
camann (1,732 Posts)	Originally posted by uisceford: You forgot to mention Ray Barry. great post by the way.... To single out one particular point that caused this to go wrong is hard...There are obviously a number of factors... I think in waterford sucess was expected after winning under 21, that the team would fit in and peak after they played together at senior for a few years..I remember they were getting organised in 96 when tipp bet them in walsh park in the championship and they lost by 6-7 points to limerick in 97 where they showed new signs of organisation..... Offally had a real small group of fantastic players that gelled quickly and then won all irelands I mentioned Ray Barry. Ken McGrath made his debut in 96 gainst Tipp in Walsh Park. John Troy scored one of the best goals one is likely to see in the repalyed twenty one game. its on youtube
SILVIO DANTE (73 Posts)	Posted: 17-Nov-2008 14:58	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
SILVIO DANTE (73 Posts)	Originally posted by Beardy J: Bit unfair on Georgie Leahy - led Glenmore to All Ireland club glory & James Stephens too if im not mistaken. Anyone who leads 2 separate teams to all Ireland success must be considered an excellent manager. Beardy JOHN is a Glenmore man im guessing,one that mightnt fully know his Glenmore hurling history though,im nearly certain that Glenmore native Tom Ryan trained his own club to win the Club All Ireland in 1991,Georgie was trainer when Glenmore won the 1995 Kilkenny and Leinster club championship before being very surprisingly beaten by total unknowns Dunloy in the AI semi final that Year.My formed opinion on Leahy wouldnt be that positive,whether he was to blame for Waterfords woes in the early 90s im not so sure it could be totally put down to his being charge of Senior team affairs.
SILVIO DANTE (73 Posts)	Posted: 17-Nov-2008 15:00	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
SILVIO DANTE (73 Posts)	Originally posted by camann: I mentioned Ray Barry. Ken McGrath made his debut in 96 gainst Tipp in Walsh Park. John Troy scored one of the best goals one is likely to see in the repalyed twenty one game. its on youtube Paul Power was midfield for Waterford u21s in 92,he went on to have a long and successful career with Ballygunner at local and Munster level.I think Paul Foley was on it too,was he?
Visalia (681 Posts)	Posted: 17-Nov-2008 15:14	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Visalia (681 Posts)	Giveitfong You are on the ball. I remeber 92 and 94 and felt aside from Cork and Offaly beating us that Waterford were the toughest opposition. Indeed, those Waterford teams were really good at that time.
camann (1,732 Posts)	Posted: 17-Nov-2008 17:16	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
camann (1,732 Posts)	Originally posted by SILVIO DANTE: Paul Power was midfield for Waterford u21s in 92,he went on to have a long and successful career with Ballygunner at local and Munster level.I think Paul Foley was on it too,was he? Power came on as a sub in the replay . Fives and Brennar were midfield
Beardy J (437 Posts)	Posted: 17-Nov-2008 18:27	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Beardy J (437 Posts)	Originally posted by SILVIO DANTE: Beardy JOHN is a Glenmore man im guessing,one that mightnt fully know his Glenmore hurling history though,im nearly certain that Glenmore native Tom Ryan trained his own club to win the Club All Ireland in 1991,Georgie was trainer when Glenmore won the 1995 Kilkenny and Leinster club championship before being very surprisingly beaten by total unknowns Dunloy in the AI semi final that Year.My formed opinion on Leahy wouldnt be that positive,whether he was to blame for Waterfords woes in the early 90s im not so sure it could be totally put down to his being charge of Senior team affairs. Silvio, It was Georgie who trained the 91 All Ireland Team. Tom Ryan trained the 95 team who won Leinster & lost to Dunloy in semi. Hes actually from Dunnamaggin I think, he trained the Shamrocks to one or two county finals & the KK camogies to loads of All Irelands. You are right in saying that there is a Tom Ryan in Glenmore, better known as Blind Tom. Tom was a select or for KK in 1992. Famously he ran up to Kevin Hennessy (Cork ) after the final whistle, clapped him on the back & roared "a boy Christy"........Im sure Kevin was delighted!!
uisceford (531 Posts)	Posted: 18-Nov-2008 09:03	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
uisceford (531 Posts)	foley was not he scored in 94 semi against kilkenny early on.... Paul Power was not midfield in 92....he was super sub Originally posted by SILVIO DANTE: Paul Power was midfield for Waterford u21s in 92,he went on to have a long and successful career with Ballygunner at local and Munster level.I think Paul Foley was on it too,was he?
feshty (8 Posts)	Posted: 18-Nov-2008 18:10	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
feshty (8 Posts)	Originally posted by SILVIO DANTE: Paul Power was midfield for Waterford u21s in 92,he went on to have a long and successful career with Ballygunner at local and Munster level.I think Paul Foley was on it too,was he? Paul Foley was full forward on the Minor team in 1992

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