Originally posted by Site Admin:
Controversial Limerick GAA author plans two more books including one on Mick Mackey

Originally posted by Comic Book Guy:


SLR,
As a proud Limerick man I called you out on a thread last year where I questioned your motivation for writing a book on the failures of Limerick hurling. I couldnt see the reason why anybody would want to put pen to paper on a story of neverending failure and cause our county to be even more of a laughing stock than it already was/is.

When the book came out I bought it in Donovan`s of Oola as much out of curiousity as anything else. I started reading it on a Friday evening, went straight through the night and finished it well after six on Saturday morning. I couldnt have been more wrong about the book. Obviously because of where Im from I would be biased, but for me its the best book I`ve ever read. I keep meaning to read it again,especially Tom Ryan`s stories,but I think the brother has it under lock and key somewhere!

I thought it might have been a turning point in Limerick`s fortunes where people would realise how much we`ve shot ourselves in the foot but then the whole Justin saga happened and it became more of a laughing stock than ever. But if it has done anything its to inform people of the politics in our county and make people think about who exactly is controlling who in Limerick hurling and what their angles are  (and there are lots of them  )  .

Im going to give my tuppence on the whole situation,it might seem like a rambling rant but its coming from the right place. I dont have a lot of experience outside of Limerick but I`ve never seen anything to match the club politics here. The level of begrudgery between officials and players is unreal and to my mind the reason the players lost out in the famous votes was jealousy and bitterness. most club delegates have their best days of hurling behind them  (if indeed they ever hurled in their life  )   so the only ladder they can climb is the administrative one whereby they have to bow to the top table   until their own time comes. County players tend not to be around their clubs for training etc which is understandable enough so that breeds bitterness aswell. I dont think there`s much dialogue between delegates and county players in clubs,this is where distrust creeps in. The players are no angels either in all of this and in some cases discipline needs to be questioned. But can players have caused 70 years of heartbreak?Officialdom needs to hold up its hands aswell.

I was one of the many who took part in the original underage 5 year plan led by John Landers and Br. Philip Ryan among others. It was an excellent programme,the preparation was top class,training was varied,everything was professionally run,meals after training,gear,the endless supply of horrible gatorade drinks during training,physios paid for, etc. Underage hurling was at a pretty low ebb previous to the Plan starting and I believe it was a success. From what I can remember there were definitely at least two All Ireland U-16 finals reached, a first ever Munster U-15 championship won and a Munster minor final appearance. One minor team was very unlucky when meeting what was regarded as one of the best ever Tipp minor teams with Kelly and Shelley in Thurles and another ran into Clare who had just won the All-Ireland in the previous year. A missed Limerick penalty and late Clare goal did the trick there. That was straight knockout then aswell. The county was combed for talent and very few passed through the net. Of the three All-Ireland U-21 winning teams Id say there weren`t more than a handful that hadn`t been part of the 5 Year Plan. Why was this discontinued? Money?

Which brings us to the U-21 teams. Too much too soon?Probably. They gave us some entertainment and memorable matches. Some lads overdid it on the celebrations but then again when you walk into a bar after lifting the hearts of everybody there and the drink is flowing,you`d want to have a good head on your shoulders to walk away. But how many of the players on those teams didnt come through to play senior?Most got a chance,it was just the whole situation wasnt managed very well. After Dave Keane was ousted unfairly a strong, respected personality was needed with links to neither the senior players or the up and coming u-21`s. We all know how that turned out. Unfortunately we`ll never know different things could have been under Pat Herbert, or if anything would have changed. A county starved of success fetes its heroes no matter how small the prize. Everybody got carried away. Everybody. Some of the players thought they could do the same stuff off the pitch at senior level as they had been at U-21. Management in some cases turned a blind eye leading to bitterness between the players.

And yet, and yet, and yet, during all the craziness some hurling broke out. In `01 we lost to eventual All-Ireland Champions Tipp by two points in the Munster Final. I sincerely believe there was an All-Ireland for the taking that year. We lost by two points after a replay to reigning Munster champions Waterford in `03, lost by three to eventual All Ireland champions Cork in `04,lost by a point to eventual All-Ireland finalists Galway in 05,lost by one to All Ireland finalist Cork in `06,reached All-Ireland final in `07. Then the wheels came off.

And where from here? Changes need to happen at the very top in the County Board. But will they? Unfortunately the people who are needed for this change  (is revolution too strong a word??  )  are the very people who are instantly turned off by the nudge and wink nature of GAA politics. My ear wouldnt be too close to the underage scene but judging by reports on this website and other news outlets it seems underage hurling in Limerick isnt in as bad a state of affairs as the senior set up is. That is good news.

I dont want this to get too long winded so I`ll finish up now.I live right beside the motorway and was out for a walk Sunday night. I could see the tipp cars on the way home beeping and roaring out their windows. And I was happy for them,as much for the fact that I know genuine Tipp hurling people as well as the fact that somebody had given everyone hope and proved you could beat Kilkenny in championship hurling. And it hit me on my way home that I might never get to do that. to drive down the M7 on the first Sunday in September with an All-Ireland in our backpockets and feeling that natural high which you can only get when something that matters to you finally occurs.

Thank God for hope and hurling!

Originally posted by Comic Book Guy:


SLR,
As a proud Limerick man I called you out on a thread last year where I questioned your motivation for writing a book on the failures of Limerick hurling. I couldnt see the reason why anybody would want to put pen to paper on a story of neverending failure and cause our county to be even more of a laughing stock than it already was/is.

When the book came out I bought it in Donovan`s of Oola as much out of curiousity as anything else. I started reading it on a Friday evening, went straight through the night and finished it well after six on Saturday morning. I couldnt have been more wrong about the book. Obviously because of where Im from I would be biased, but for me its the best book I`ve ever read. I keep meaning to read it again,especially Tom Ryan`s stories,but I think the brother has it under lock and key somewhere!

I thought it might have been a turning point in Limerick`s fortunes where people would realise how much we`ve shot ourselves in the foot but then the whole Justin saga happened and it became more of a laughing stock than ever. But if it has done anything its to inform people of the politics in our county and make people think about who exactly is controlling who in Limerick hurling and what their angles are  (and there are lots of them  )  .

Im going to give my tuppence on the whole situation,it might seem like a rambling rant but its coming from the right place. I dont have a lot of experience outside of Limerick but I`ve never seen anything to match the club politics here. The level of begrudgery between officials and players is unreal and to my mind the reason the players lost out in the famous votes was jealousy and bitterness. most club delegates have their best days of hurling behind them  (if indeed they ever hurled in their life  )   so the only ladder they can climb is the administrative one whereby they have to bow to the top table   until their own time comes. County players tend not to be around their clubs for training etc which is understandable enough so that breeds bitterness aswell. I dont think there`s much dialogue between delegates and county players in clubs,this is where distrust creeps in. The players are no angels either in all of this and in some cases discipline needs to be questioned. But can players have caused 70 years of heartbreak?Officialdom needs to hold up its hands aswell.

I was one of the many who took part in the original underage 5 year plan led by John Landers and Br. Philip Ryan among others. It was an excellent programme,the preparation was top class,training was varied,everything was professionally run,meals after training,gear,the endless supply of horrible gatorade drinks during training,physios paid for, etc. Underage hurling was at a pretty low ebb previous to the Plan starting and I believe it was a success. From what I can remember there were definitely at least two All Ireland U-16 finals reached, a first ever Munster U-15 championship won and a Munster minor final appearance. One minor team was very unlucky when meeting what was regarded as one of the best ever Tipp minor teams with Kelly and Shelley in Thurles and another ran into Clare who had just won the All-Ireland in the previous year. A missed Limerick penalty and late Clare goal did the trick there. That was straight knockout then aswell. The county was combed for talent and very few passed through the net. Of the three All-Ireland U-21 winning teams Id say there weren`t more than a handful that hadn`t been part of the 5 Year Plan. Why was this discontinued? Money?

Which brings us to the U-21 teams. Too much too soon?Probably. They gave us some entertainment and memorable matches. Some lads overdid it on the celebrations but then again when you walk into a bar after lifting the hearts of everybody there and the drink is flowing,you`d want to have a good head on your shoulders to walk away. But how many of the players on those teams didnt come through to play senior?Most got a chance,it was just the whole situation wasnt managed very well. After Dave Keane was ousted unfairly a strong, respected personality was needed with links to neither the senior players or the up and coming u-21`s. We all know how that turned out. Unfortunately we`ll never know different things could have been under Pat Herbert, or if anything would have changed. A county starved of success fetes its heroes no matter how small the prize. Everybody got carried away. Everybody. Some of the players thought they could do the same stuff off the pitch at senior level as they had been at U-21. Management in some cases turned a blind eye leading to bitterness between the players.

And yet, and yet, and yet, during all the craziness some hurling broke out. In `01 we lost to eventual All-Ireland Champions Tipp by two points in the Munster Final. I sincerely believe there was an All-Ireland for the taking that year. We lost by two points after a replay to reigning Munster champions Waterford in `03, lost by three to eventual All Ireland champions Cork in `04,lost by a point to eventual All-Ireland finalists Galway in 05,lost by one to All Ireland finalist Cork in `06,reached All-Ireland final in `07. Then the wheels came off.

And where from here? Changes need to happen at the very top in the County Board. But will they? Unfortunately the people who are needed for this change  (is revolution too strong a word??  )  are the very people who are instantly turned off by the nudge and wink nature of GAA politics. My ear wouldnt be too close to the underage scene but judging by reports on this website and other news outlets it seems underage hurling in Limerick isnt in as bad a state of affairs as the senior set up is. That is good news.

I dont want this to get too long winded so I`ll finish up now.I live right beside the motorway and was out for a walk Sunday night. I could see the tipp cars on the way home beeping and roaring out their windows. And I was happy for them,as much for the fact that I know genuine Tipp hurling people as well as the fact that somebody had given everyone hope and proved you could beat Kilkenny in championship hurling. And it hit me on my way home that I might never get to do that. to drive down the M7 on the first Sunday in September with an All-Ireland in our backpockets and feeling that natural high which you can only get when something that matters to you finally occurs.

Thank God for hope and hurling!

Originally posted by Comic Book Guy:


SLR,
As a proud Limerick man I called you out on a thread last year where I questioned your motivation for writing a book on the failures of Limerick hurling. I couldnt see the reason why anybody would want to put pen to paper on a story of neverending failure and cause our county to be even more of a laughing stock than it already was/is.

When the book came out I bought it in Donovan`s of Oola as much out of curiousity as anything else. I started reading it on a Friday evening, went straight through the night and finished it well after six on Saturday morning. I couldnt have been more wrong about the book. Obviously because of where Im from I would be biased, but for me its the best book I`ve ever read. I keep meaning to read it again,especially Tom Ryan`s stories,but I think the brother has it under lock and key somewhere!

I thought it might have been a turning point in Limerick`s fortunes where people would realise how much we`ve shot ourselves in the foot but then the whole Justin saga happened and it became more of a laughing stock than ever. But if it has done anything its to inform people of the politics in our county and make people think about who exactly is controlling who in Limerick hurling and what their angles are  (and there are lots of them  )  .

Im going to give my tuppence on the whole situation,it might seem like a rambling rant but its coming from the right place. I dont have a lot of experience outside of Limerick but I`ve never seen anything to match the club politics here. The level of begrudgery between officials and players is unreal and to my mind the reason the players lost out in the famous votes was jealousy and bitterness. most club delegates have their best days of hurling behind them  (if indeed they ever hurled in their life  )   so the only ladder they can climb is the administrative one whereby they have to bow to the top table   until their own time comes. County players tend not to be around their clubs for training etc which is understandable enough so that breeds bitterness aswell. I dont think there`s much dialogue between delegates and county players in clubs,this is where distrust creeps in. The players are no angels either in all of this and in some cases discipline needs to be questioned. But can players have caused 70 years of heartbreak?Officialdom needs to hold up its hands aswell.

I was one of the many who took part in the original underage 5 year plan led by John Landers and Br. Philip Ryan among others. It was an excellent programme,the preparation was top class,training was varied,everything was professionally run,meals after training,gear,the endless supply of horrible gatorade drinks during training,physios paid for, etc. Underage hurling was at a pretty low ebb previous to the Plan starting and I believe it was a success. From what I can remember there were definitely at least two All Ireland U-16 finals reached, a first ever Munster U-15 championship won and a Munster minor final appearance. One minor team was very unlucky when meeting what was regarded as one of the best ever Tipp minor teams with Kelly and Shelley in Thurles and another ran into Clare who had just won the All-Ireland in the previous year. A missed Limerick penalty and late Clare goal did the trick there. That was straight knockout then aswell. The county was combed for talent and very few passed through the net. Of the three All-Ireland U-21 winning teams Id say there weren`t more than a handful that hadn`t been part of the 5 Year Plan. Why was this discontinued? Money?

Which brings us to the U-21 teams. Too much too soon?Probably. They gave us some entertainment and memorable matches. Some lads overdid it on the celebrations but then again when you walk into a bar after lifting the hearts of everybody there and the drink is flowing,you`d want to have a good head on your shoulders to walk away. But how many of the players on those teams didnt come through to play senior?Most got a chance,it was just the whole situation wasnt managed very well. After Dave Keane was ousted unfairly a strong, respected personality was needed with links to neither the senior players or the up and coming u-21`s. We all know how that turned out. Unfortunately we`ll never know different things could have been under Pat Herbert, or if anything would have changed. A county starved of success fetes its heroes no matter how small the prize. Everybody got carried away. Everybody. Some of the players thought they could do the same stuff off the pitch at senior level as they had been at U-21. Management in some cases turned a blind eye leading to bitterness between the players.

And yet, and yet, and yet, during all the craziness some hurling broke out. In `01 we lost to eventual All-Ireland Champions Tipp by two points in the Munster Final. I sincerely believe there was an All-Ireland for the taking that year. We lost by two points after a replay to reigning Munster champions Waterford in `03, lost by three to eventual All Ireland champions Cork in `04,lost by a point to eventual All-Ireland finalists Galway in 05,lost by one to All Ireland finalist Cork in `06,reached All-Ireland final in `07. Then the wheels came off.

And where from here? Changes need to happen at the very top in the County Board. But will they? Unfortunately the people who are needed for this change  (is revolution too strong a word??  )  are the very people who are instantly turned off by the nudge and wink nature of GAA politics. My ear wouldnt be too close to the underage scene but judging by reports on this website and other news outlets it seems underage hurling in Limerick isnt in as bad a state of affairs as the senior set up is. That is good news.

I dont want this to get too long winded so I`ll finish up now.I live right beside the motorway and was out for a walk Sunday night. I could see the tipp cars on the way home beeping and roaring out their windows. And I was happy for them,as much for the fact that I know genuine Tipp hurling people as well as the fact that somebody had given everyone hope and proved you could beat Kilkenny in championship hurling. And it hit me on my way home that I might never get to do that. to drive down the M7 on the first Sunday in September with an All-Ireland in our backpockets and feeling that natural high which you can only get when something that matters to you finally occurs.

Thank God for hope and hurling!

This message has been edited - 10-sep-2010 @ 21:41

Originally posted by wristy wing back:
If the right choice for manager is made now and we sort this mess out and start fresh, i believe we can come down the m7 on the first sweet sunday evening of September with Liam McCarthy to follow the night after. Thats not dreaming. I am involved heavily at club level at underage level. I know what is coming. We have a few genuinely smashing players on the way, circa 17/18/19 years of age, three lads in particular are really talented players, any county would be delighted to have talent like them.i dont like naming young lads and praising them   (thats what happened with the u21s of 00/01/02  )   and most of ye will know who they are anyway, they are all already excelling at senior for their clubs. Add these young lads to our very good u21 players   (anyone that saw game v clare this year cannot dispute that some of our u21 lads are every bit as good as clare`s lads who won AI in 09  )   like Nicky Quaid, Barry Hennessy, Paul Browne, Paudie O`Brien, Tommy O`Brien, Graeme Mulcahy, Seanie Tobin etc and you have a core of very good talent coming through. Then you have Denny Moloney, Gavin O`Mahoney, Seamie Hickey, Davey Moloney, Brian O`Sullivan, James Ryan. And thats not even mentioning the older players in their late 20`s/early 30`s who are still vital to Limerick hurling   (Shaughs,Niall Moran,Reale,Lucey,Geary,Dodge  )  . Another man id have in in a flash would be Paddy Kirby, he`s back to his best at club, flying it.

Limerick Hurling is far from dead and gone.

That lovely journey down home is not impossible lads.....

You must believe. Without belief, you have nothing.

Originally posted by South Limerick Referee:
Thanks for the post Comic Book Guy,

Great Post.

A lot of Limerick would have huge regard for the book, but someone from Cork or some other county wouldnt have the same regard for it. Its very difficult to have the same affinity for the book that we have, going to the matches, suffering the pain, and then getting it recounted While I was the author in one sense, I am also a reader, because I didnt really write the book, I transcribed it. We havent really had a book of our own before, and the Revolution Years didnt bother with us.

12 months later, it hasnt really proved a launchpad for a revival. We will see bluffers appointed to managerial jobs at underage level in the future, we will see politicians elected at county board level. We will see people stand for photgraphs without any intention of delivering on their promises.

You are dead right on the five year plan. Brother Philip Ryan was subject to criticism because he brought in a psychologist if I remember correctly. The Under 21 teams didnt come out of nowhere, I was at the minor games against Tipperary in 1997 and Clare in 1998. We were very unlucky on those nights. But above all we had raw material coming through from underage. Clubs like Croom, Murroe/Boher and Knockainey had their best crops of underage players on the same age for years. The man above was kind to us in that he decreed that so many hurling children would be born within the same timeframe.

You make a very valid point about county players not training with the clubs. It would take a county manager with a Brian Cody mindset to change that, and place the emphasis on club performances. But it would take a very strong manager to do that, and if there was one injury suffered at club level, it would put a stop to it again.

I also agree about 2001. I torture myself about that year.

This message has been edited - 10-sep-2010 @ 22:53

Originally posted by offaly:
Have ye read many books lads.

This message has been edited - 11-sep-2010 @ 09:16

Originally posted by Maguires Field:
IMHO this is yet another publicity stunt. There was nothing wrong with the book written by Sean Murphy and there is no need for a book on Mick Mackey now. All it would do is cause comparisons between the old book and the new book and the modern day fan club would back their modern day `hero`. His invitation to appear as a guest speaker at Glenroe during the week proves that. Glenroe Gaa should be ashamed of themselves.

Bottom line is that this person has done nothing good for the association only wreck the good work of others!!!!!

Originally posted by Maguires Field:
Bottom line is that this person has done nothing good for the association only wreck the good work of others!!!!!

Originally posted by Maguires Field:
IMHO this is yet another publicity stunt. There was nothing wrong with the book written by Sean Murphy and there is no need for a book on Mick Mackey now. All it would do is cause comparisons between the old book and the new book and the modern day fan club would back their modern day `hero`. His invitation to appear as a guest speaker at Glenroe during the week proves that. Glenroe Gaa should be ashamed of themselves.

Bottom line is that this person has done nothing good for the association only wreck the good work of others!!!!!

This message has been edited - 11-sep-2010 @ 13:16

Originally posted by South Limerick Referee:
Is it possible for me to achieve that with the Mick Mackey book?

Originally posted by Maguires Field:

Bottom line is that this person has done nothing good for the association only wreck the good work of others!!!!!

This message has been edited - 11-sep-2010 @ 22:10