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Topic: Outfield Players with potential to be converted to play at Full Back for Limerick
South Limerick Referee
(16,613 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 14:39
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In 1979, Pat Hartigan suffered an eye injury that ended his career. Leonard Enright was converted into an Allstar full back despite having limited, if any experience in the position. In 2000, Eamonn Cregan switched TJ Ryan from corner forward to full back. We have discussed the pros and cons of Stephen Lucey, Seamus Hickey, Tom Condon, Richard McCarthy, Gavin Mahoney and Philip O`Loughlin.

Is there any outfield player there who has the attributes to make a full back? Looking at the full forwards, that are out there at intercounty level, we need someone adaptable  enough to make them all. Is there any midfielder or forward, outside of the discussed, who could potentially play the position?
redlead
(4,662 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 14:42
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Originally posted by South Limerick Referee:
Players with potential to be converted to play at Full Back for Limerick

As we have learned in Waterford, this is far easier said than done. I think that you are far better off just picking the best specialist FB in the county and sticking with him.
carryharry
(4,804 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 14:45
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Originally posted by South Limerick Referee:
Players with potential to be converted to play at Full Back for Limerick

Is Brian Geary not worth a mention if he`s not pacy enough for centre back?
parmenion
(499 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 14:49
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Originally posted by carryharry:


Is Brian Geary not worth a mention if he`s not pacy enough for centre back?

I guess we need to be looking at a long term replacement. Brian might only have a year or two left. I would try Ritchie Mc there for a few league games, else Tom Condon
lopper
(1,990 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 14:52
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If Brian Geary is not pacey enough for centre-back then he is certainly not pacey enough for full-back. To be honest, I`d say we`ve seen the last of Geary, he has served his county very well.

I think this chopping and changing business is not good. Richie McCarthy and Phil O`Loughlin are held in good esteem by many as good fullbacks and should be tried out, while if the U21s get a good run Pat Begley might be good for the position in a few years. Alternatively, against a more free-moving set of forwards like Tipperary`s, the necessity for a classic fullback may not be so strong as the need for a set of fairly interchangeable players who will take a man, stick to him and have the stamina and pace to cover for eachother, in which case we need 6 Tom Condons!
carryharry
(4,804 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 14:52
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Originally posted by parmenion:


I guess we need to be looking at a long term replacement. Brian might only have a year or two left. I would try Ritchie Mc there for a few league games, else Tom Condon

Who played full back in Kilmallock`s club team last year? Would he be good enough?
GAA 676
(280 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 14:53
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I think Richie McCarthy was the best club full back in the county by a country mile last year and I hope he is given a chance at full back during the league next year. Although having said that there is still a few more years left in Stephen Lucey. Patrick Begley after his performances with the intermediates and 21s to date will surely be given a chance but I think in a few years time Barry O`Connell of Kildimo will make this position his own. Has all the attributes of a modern day full back. Good aerial ability, plenty of skill, carries the ball forward, good man marker and a physically imposing figure as well.
wibbly wobbly wonder
(967 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 15:03
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I think its a lot to do with the players mindset, awareness and cuteness aswell. But one thing a full back needs now is pace along with the more traditional attributes.

Also when Limerick were changing that position last sunday i would have thought that Gavin O Mahony might have been moved there. Didnt he play most of the league games there?

South Limerick Referee
(16,613 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 15:17
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I am of the belief that the fastest players you have on the field need to be in the full back line, the way the game has gone. That applies to the corner backs and full backs.

Take for example the goal chance that Kevin Downes had, that Peter Kelly blocked down last Sunday. Would any of the full backs listed above have made up the ground to get across and prevent Downes from getting the shot off?

However pace alone is not enough, a number of other boxes have to be ticked. Obviously one player who probably could do the job and would tick a lot of boxes is Declan Hannon, but there is no way you could ever justify taking him out of the forwards.
Billy Da Kid
(1,488 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 15:31
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Originally posted by South Limerick Referee:
Outfield Players with potential to be converted to play at Full Back for Limerick

I think that Richie McCarthy will be our new Full back.
wristy wing back
(1,153 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 15:41
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The last thing i want to see is 9 different players being looked at for Fullback. Just look at Waterford and their problems at 3 for the reason why. What do you do then when an FB has a poor day? drop   him? It makes no sense to constantly chop and change, especially mid-season. I said after the League final Tom Condon should have been given a go there but they went with Hickey so i said stick with Hickey until the end of the year. We ended up with Condon there.

We all knew Hickey was temporarily filling in. If there is 1 criticism i have of management in 2011 it was the failure to find a FB, but as said to me, they were never going to find out about potential FB`s and other positions in Div 2, winning too handy. We will learn a hell of a lot from early on next yearb in Div 1 and not be still uncertain in May and June about lads.

To my mind we have these players to choose from.

Tom Condon
Stephen Walsh
Richie McCarthy
Philip O`Loughlin
Pat Begley

Condon played an awful lot of underage hurling at 3 and 6 and played U21 for Limerick at 3 against Waterford and played very well there. Did well there both times this year but he is a bit too `gung ho` for my liking sometimes to be minding the house!

Stephen Walsh could be an interesting one....

I have reservations about Richie`s pace at no.3. Playing a pile of hurling for club and division in forwards now too.

What age is Brian Kelleher of Dromin/Athlacca. I have been impressed by him, but how is he for pace? A tough cookie.
This message has been edited - 27-jul-2011 @ 15:43
wristy wing back
(1,153 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 15:45
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Originally posted by carryharry:


Who played full back in Kilmallock`s club team last year? Would he be good enough?

Philip O`Loughlin, last years U21 No.6

He is a giant of a man and a fine athlete and def worth a look. He was mentioned by me and others in other threads.
the moose
(819 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 16:07
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If the present management remain in place dont be surprised if Graham Mulcahy or Seanie Tobin end up there. Seen as its mostly handball we play why not play Seamus O Carroll he is a sub on the under 21s.
wristy wing back
(1,153 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 16:30
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Originally posted by the moose:
If the present management remain in place dont be surprised if Graham Mulcahy or Seanie Tobin end up there. Seen as its mostly handball we play why not play Seamus O Carroll he is a sub on the under 21s.

Great insightful post. Are you actually seriously calling for the management to be replaced?! Would you rather we were still making heroes out of our half backs with 80 yard skyline clearances, while the same said half-backs still manage to concede 0-4 from play to their opposing man yet still get all the plaudits from the `knowledgeable` fans who say "He was the only one out there!!!"

Its quite obvious that the style we have been playing since 1940, that great `Limerick traditional shtyle of hurlin` has really worked out well for us. We are laden down with medals.....God forbid we now actually want to keep the ball and try and use it properly.

Granted the handpassing can be overdone, but i thank God every day that we finally have a system and a game plan that might give us a chnace of long term achievement. Anyone who thinks O`Grady wants his backs soloing 50 yards and also backs handpassing in danger areas should watch the highlights of Sundays game when he was clearly agitated and going mad when the players were overdoing it. Its not as if the players are not allowed to hit it long. They are. They are just still adapting and have not got to grips with the decision making side of the game yet.

A year in Division 1 will iron a lot of that out.
This message has been edited - 27-jul-2011 @ 16:31
South Limerick Referee
(16,613 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 16:44
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Richie is an outstanding club full back and has the streetwiseness for the position, but if you look at the game last Sunday, I dont think he would have had to pace for the likes of David Treacy, Paul Ryan etc.

However if Gavin Mahoney and Seamus Hickey are entitled to a run of games in the position, perhaps Richie is entitled to a run of games there to prove himself.

Originally posted by Billy Da Kid:


I think that Richie McCarthy will be our new Full back.
carryharry
(4,804 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 16:49
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Originally posted by wristy wing back:


Philip O`Loughlin, last years U21 No.6

He is a giant of a man and a fine athlete and def worth a look. He was mentioned by me and others in other threads.

I was`nt in Kilmallock for the Munster club semi final between Thurles and Kilmallock but i heard from a few thurles lad`s that the full back for kilmallock looked a handy bit of stuff is all.
wakeuplads
(1,070 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 17:27
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Tom Condon ticks more boxes than anyone else mentioned. He has pace, is a very good hurler, and is tough as nails. Okay, he might have some bad habits but a full year under O`Grady playing as a no. 3 and I`m sure they could be ironed out.

Any time Condon has gone in full back this year he has looked very comfortable  there. Nobody else who was tried there has looked nearly as assured as him. I think we should be looking on Condon as our full back for 2012 and try to find two good corner backs to go in beside him.

There are certainly others who could be tried there - Richie McCarthy, Philip O`Loughlin etc. But they would have to be put on trial there, and even at that, you never really know how someone will do until they`ve played there in the championship. Condon has been tried and tested and we know he can do a job there.

Is Lucey worth another go there or has time passed him by?
capitalhurler
(333 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 17:27
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Wwb you`re talking through your h__e. We have only won one all Ireland since 1940 mostly because we were not good enough with a fair slice of bad luck thrown in there too. This short game has been exposed and please don`t tell me kk or tipp play the short game because they don`t. To suggest that we havent won all Ireland`s because of players getting rid of the ball first time is an insult to many great players who wore the jersey with pride. You seem to have no problem insulting such players.
The long ball served us well in ennis last night and I`d like to see the senior team using it more often. The short passing game contributed to only two forwards scoring from play last Sunday and a poor service to Kevin downes.
Cork will abandon the short ball when the siptu boys go. Their u-21s were an example of good first time hurling with plenty of movement against Tipp.
The short passing game was finished in 2006 when kk put a stop to it in the all Ireland final. Look at tipps goals in the munster final, all the work of quick ball with movement. This is the way forward for Limerick, not the tip tapping stuff that is long past it`s sell by date
wristy wing back
(1,153 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 17:30
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Originally posted by wakeuplads:
Tom Condon ticks more boxes than anyone else mentioned. He has pace, is a very good hurler, and is tough as nails. Okay, he might have some bad habits but a full year under O`Grady playing as a no. 3 and I`m sure they could be ironed out.

Any time Condon has gone in full back this year he has looked very comfortable   there. Nobody else who was tried there has looked nearly as assured as him. I think we should be looking on Condon as our full back for 2012 and try to find two good corner backs to go in beside him.

There are certainly others who could be tried there - Richie McCarthy, Philip O`Loughlin etc. But they would have to be put on trial there, and even at that, you never really know how someone will do until they`ve played there in the championship. Condon has been tried and tested and we know he can do a job there.

Is Lucey worth another go there or has time passed him by?

with regards Lucey, he has been a stalwart for Limerick, a great servant, but perhaps its time we looked ahead. Lucey will not be around forever and issues surrounding his pace are well documented. i would still have him in panel though.

The only issue i would have with Condon is in the air, a big man could outfield him. He is not the tallest though very strong. He bats a lot in the air but would have to work on marking FF`s that are taller than him.

I always like a tall full back.
wristy wing back
(1,153 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 17:50
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Originally posted by capitalhurler:
Wwb you`re talking through your h__e. We have only won one all Ireland since 1940 mostly because we were not good enough with a fair slice of bad luck thrown in there too. This short game has been exposed and please don`t tell me kk or tipp play the short game because they don`t. To suggest that we havent won all Ireland`s because of players getting rid of the ball first time is an insult to many great players who wore the jersey with pride. You seem to have no problem insulting such players.
The long ball served us well in ennis last night and I`d like to see the senior team using it more often. The short passing game contributed to only two forwards scoring from play last Sunday and a poor service to Kevin downes.
Cork will abandon the short ball when the siptu boys go. Their u-21s were an example of good first time hurling with plenty of movement against Tipp.
The short passing game was finished in 2006 when kk put a stop to it in the all Ireland final. Look at tipps goals in the munster final, all the work of quick ball with movement. This is the way forward for Limerick, not the tip tapping stuff that is long past it`s sell by date

If it was anyone else i would have a proper debate with you, but i lost all respect for you a long long time ago.

Anyway, im not talking through my hole, as you put it. The facts show. our traditional style of booming long high balls from the half backline have delivered nada since 1973, and 1 All Ireland since 1940. Simple as that.

I insulted no player. Your the man with the history of insulting players now are`nt you?

We had some brilliant players, no question of that, and i never said otherwise. But are you telling me those players achieved what they should have, what they deserved? You say we didnt win down through the years because we were`nt good enough. Thats not the case imo. Some years we were`nt, other years we were. We didnt win because we wasted chance after chance after chance, did not use the ball wisely and gave incredibly poor ball into forwards for years, especially from 02 to 06.

I love the direct ball. So does Donal O`Grady. However my definition and i suspect his definition of the direct ball is a lot different to the type of direct ball we used to play, 50 and 60 yard booming high balls with no look up. A direct ball to me is played from the half forward/midfield area, long and low into space. This must be done when the passer is in space so as not to be hitting the ball under pressure and thus giving poor ball , thus the short handpassing to set that space up. Thats the idea. I fully agree that Limk did not implement this on Sun last for various reasons and we often over carry the ball and over do the handpassing. My point is the proper direct ball will come in time when the team adapts further. We saw it work to perfection v Waterford when we put Downes in for goals with pinpoint direct chest height balls into space, so its untrue to say we dont want to hit it long. The system allows for direct ball, of course it does, and its encouraged. Just not from 60 yards under pressure and up into the clouds.

And i never said anything about what Tipp and KK are doing and i dont really care seeing as we are Limerick. If we work on this game, work on getting the ball into the FF line from the Half-Forward/Midfield area direct and with quality after working it out of defence then the system will work. It did not work last Sunday because we failed to give the ball in from that area due to numerous reasons, one being pressure applied and 2 being the spare man which we used disastrously as we took our FF line out of the game with a spare dub player sitting in front of them.

People misread the type of game O`Grady wants to play. He DOES NOT WANT players soloing 50 yards out of defence or making risky passes.

Anyway...
luimneach abu
(1,987 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 18:00
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Those low balls that Mark Foley used to send into Shaugs in 2007 were great passes. I`d prefer to see the ball being played in than lads taking [pot shots from out the field, when there are better placed men inside.
Larkin
(4,404 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 18:02
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Originally posted by carryharry:

I was`nt in Kilmallock for the Munster club semi final between Thurles and Kilmallock but i heard from a few thurles lad`s that the full back for kilmallock looked a handy bit of stuff is all.

After that performance last year in the club championship I though he would at least be on the senior panel. However he would be a great choice in my opinion. Tall, strong and with great hands.

Other than that I would have McCarthy back there. But whatever we do Limerick needs to nail this position down next year and not be in a position like we were this year.
glasandbán
(2,046 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 18:08
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I think the management majorly slipped up in their select ions at full back this year. I dont think that o`mahony or hickey were ever well suited to full back, and i thonk that the management erred in not giving lucey a chance at fullback this year. It`s well and good talking about developing players but i don`t think that we should sacrifice a few seasons in the short term either, if a player like lucey or geary is a good, or the best option currently, then they should be select ed. I think that lucey should be tried next year, if he doesn`t do well then grand but he should get an equal shot at winning a jersey. Then again, perhaps he wasn`t going well in training, but if that`s the case then why was he introduced as a sub?

The position has changed a bit in recent years but a fullback still needs to be strong under a drop ping and should be able to physically dominate te square. I would also agree that pace is more important for a fullback than a centre.

In answer to SLR`s question I would say Wayne mc. Strong physical, and much much improved as a hurled this year, and quick enough too. Otherwise condon would condon would be our best option but it would be a great luxury to keep him corner back!

By the way, what ages are lucey and geary? 30? I think both have potential to contribute for another two seasons, and should be select ed if they are on form rather than taking a punt on a younger player for the sake of "development".
Mackey 2
(312 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 18:39
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Originally posted by South Limerick Referee:
In 1979, Pat Hartigan suffered an eye injury that ended his career. Leonard Enright was converted into an Allstar full back despite having limited, if any experience in the position. In 2000, Eamonn Cregan switched TJ Ryan from corner forward to full back. We have discussed the pros and cons of Stephen Lucey, Seamus Hickey, Tom Condon, Richard McCarthy, Gavin Mahoney and Philip O`Loughlin.

Is there any outfield player there who has the attributes to make a full back? Looking at the full forwards, that are out there at intercounty level, we need someone adaptable   enough to make them all. Is there any midfielder or forward, outside of the discussed, who could potentially play the position?

Why not try Wayne MacNamara FullBack????
Wayne is 26 next year so he would be a good age to play in this position. Give him 3 or 4 League games next year in Division 1 and see how it goes. If it doesn`t work out then fair enough. Just bring him back out wing back again. I`d give him a number of games there and see how he settles there.
Wayne Mac is good under high ball, he knows how to use timber and has that bit of dirth that you need a fullback to have. His good pace to play in the position too. I`d give him a chance there next year. Maybe give Wayne Mac 3/4 games at FullBack and give Richie McCarthy 3/4 games and see at the end of the League campaign how they faired out.
wristy wing back
(1,153 Posts)
Posted: 27-Jul-2011 18:57
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Originally posted by Mackey 2:

Why not try Wayne MacNamara FullBack????
Wayne is 26 next year so he would be a good age to play in this position. Give him 3 or 4 League games next year in Division 1 and see how it goes. If it doesn`t work out then fair enough. Just bring him back out wing back again. I`d give him a number of games there and see how he settles there.
Wayne Mac is good under high ball, he knows how to use timber and has that bit of dirth that you need a fullback to have. His good pace to play in the position too. I`d give him a chance there next year. Maybe give Wayne Mac 3/4 games at FullBack and give Richie McCarthy 3/4 games and see at the end of the League campaign how they faired out.

Has good height too and is physical and fast enough. not a bad suggestion

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