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Topic: Help, I think I'm a protestant! (or Losing My Religion)
moycullen14
(550 Posts)
Posted: 12-Apr-2012 20:29
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I've come across two couples in the last few weeks who have chand over to CofI from the Catholic Church. My reflex reaction was 'Hmm, west brit wannabees' (begrudgery is second nature to us all) but on talking to one of them - who I wouldn't know well - it seemed to make a lot of sense. She felt herself a Christian, had lost all faith in the Catholic Church and liked the simplicity and respect for the individual that is tje foundation of the religion.

Nw I'm as Catholic as the next man - that is to say I go to mass twice a year, attend weddings, funerals and any other bunfight going, don't think enough about it to decide whether I believe in any of it or not BUT I will roar for a priest on my deathbed - typical Irish Catholicism.

It did set me thinking. What if you did the research and found the CofI was more to your taste.? Would you change and would it be seen as some sort of social statement? Are there many converts? As I said above, I had never come across it till recently.

Anyway, it reminds me of the old joke .....

An Irish girl went to London to work as a secretary . . .
. . . and soon began sending home money and gifts to her parents. After a few years they asked her to come home for a visit, as her father was getting frail and elderly.

She pulled up to the family home in a Rolls Royce and stepped out wearing fur and diamonds.

As she walked into the house her father said 'Hmmm - they seem to be paying secretaries awfully well in London'

The girl took his hands and said 'Dad - I've been meaning to tell you something for years but I didn't want to put it in a letter. I can't hide it from you any longer. I've become a prostitute'

Her father gasped, put his hand on his heart and keeled over.

The doctor was called but the old man had clearly lost the will to live. He was put to bed and the priest was called.

As the priest began to administer Extreme Unction, with the mother and daughter weeping and wailing, the old man muttered weakly "I'm a goner - killed by my own daughter! Killed by the shame of what you've become!"

"Please forgive me" his daughter sobbed, "I only wanted to have nice things! I wanted to be able to send you money and the only way I could do that was by becoming a prostitute."

Brushing the priest aside, the old man sat bolt upright in bed, smiling. "Did you say prostitute? I thought you said Protestant!"

leetrundle
(127 Posts)
Posted: 12-Apr-2012 22:14
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Originally posted by moycullen14:
I've come across two couples in the last few weeks who have chand over to CofI from the Catholic Church. My reflex reaction was 'Hmm, west brit wannabees' (begrudgery is second nature to us all) but on talking to one of them - who I wouldn't know well - it seemed to make a lot of sense. She felt herself a Christian, had lost all faith in the Catholic Church and liked the simplicity and respect for the individual that is tje foundation of the religion.Nw I'm as Catholic as the next man - that is to say I go to mass twice a year, attend weddings, funerals and any other bunfight going, don't think enough about it to decide whether I believe in any of it or not BUT I will roar for a priest on my deathbed - typical Irish Catholicism. It did set me thinking. What if you did the research and found the CofI was more to your taste.? Would you change and would it be seen as some sort of social statement? Are there many converts? As I said above, I had never come across it till recently. Anyway, it reminds me of the old joke .....An Irish girl went to London to work as a secretary . . .
. . . and soon began sending home money and gifts to her parents. After a few years they asked her to come home for a visit, as her father was getting frail and elderly.She pulled up to the family home in a Rolls Royce and stepped out wearing fur and diamonds.As she walked into the house her father said 'Hmmm - they seem to be paying secretaries awfully well in London'The girl took his hands and said 'Dad - I've been meaning to tell you something for years but I didn't want to put it in a letter. I can't hide it from you any longer. I've become a prostitute'Her father gasped, put his hand on his heart and keeled over.The doctor was called but the old man had clearly lost the will to live. He was put to bed and the priest was called.As the priest began to administer Extreme Unction, with the mother and daughter weeping and wailing, the old man muttered weakly "I'm a goner - killed by my own daughter! Killed by the shame of what you've become!""Please forgive me" his daughter sobbed, "I only wanted to have nice things! I wanted to be able to send you money and the only way I could do that was by becoming a prostitute."Brushing the priest aside, the old man sat bolt upright in bed, smiling. "Did you say prostitute? I thought you said Protestant!"

To be honest when you analyse it The Prods have a much better religion than us, married clergy, women priests, focus basicly on the Bible rather than hierarchy of old fogies like the Pope and cardinals, monseigneurs (spelling!) etc that the catholic church is all about

Harrison Ford
(474 Posts)
Posted: 12-Apr-2012 22:15
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Originally posted by leetrundle:
To be honest when you analyse it The Prods have a much better religion than us, married clergy, women priests, focus basicly on the Bible rather than hierarchy of old fogies like the Pope and cardinals, monseigneurs (spelling!) etc that the catholic church is all about

Agreed.
Letterman
(200 Posts)
Posted: 12-Apr-2012 22:27
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How do you interpret the Bible? IF you take it literally then you end up a born again alabama bible basher, who are so often derided on this site, if you choose to interpret it in a more discerning fashion, how do you know what parts to interpret and in what way, the anglican communion is coming apart at the seems, cause anglicans in USA beleive that you can basically do what you want (lesbian bishops etc) and anglicans in Nigeria are more traditional, in short they are so different in their belief systems that the are not really the same religion anymore, its easy to say basically believe in the Bible but to try to live it is more complicated!!
Harrison Ford
(474 Posts)
Posted: 12-Apr-2012 22:33
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Originally posted by Letterman:
if you choose to interpret it in a more discerning fashion

does this not mean "pick and choose what you can rationalise at this point in time"?

do you believe there is a hell? do you believe everything in the book of revelations?

Letterman
(200 Posts)
Posted: 12-Apr-2012 22:42
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What I mean is if you take the Bible as the sole source of revelation, then you are left with the difficulty of how do you interpret it, If its up to every individual believer then you have people who believe directly condtradictory things who are claiming to follow the same God. It seems to me that there has to be an authority a magisterium to definitivly interpret scripture, after all the bible as we have it now was defined by the council of carthage, so if you accept the bible you are implicitly accepting the authority of that council, and therefore of a magisterium
notrealdan
(637 Posts)
Posted: 12-Apr-2012 22:43
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Originally posted by leetrundle:
To be honest when you analyse it The Prods have a much better religion than us, married clergy, women priests, focus basicly on the Bible rather than hierarchy of old fogies like the Pope and cardinals, monseigneurs (spelling!) etc that the catholic church is all about

You forgot to mention the great sense of fair play that the prods have. I mean who can forget how good they were to their catholic neighbours when they held power in Northern Ireland.
And of course that great old protestant institution the Orange order is a shining example of decency, tolerance and fairplay.
Harrison Ford
(474 Posts)
Posted: 12-Apr-2012 22:53
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Originally posted by Letterman:
What I mean is if you take the Bible as the sole source of revelation, then you are left with the difficulty of how do you interpret it, If its up to every individual believer then you have people who believe directly condtradictory things who are claiming to follow the same God. It seems to me that there has to be an authority a magisterium to definitivly interpret scripture, after all the bible as we have it now was defined by the council of carthage, so if you accept the bible you are implicitly accepting the authority of that council, and therefore of a magisterium

I am reporting this post for bewilderment!

Utility Full-Forward
(723 Posts)
Posted: 12-Apr-2012 23:01
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Originally posted by leetrundle:
To be honest when you analyse it The Prods have a much better religion than us, married clergy, women priests, focus basicly on the Bible rather than hierarchy of old fogies like the Pope and cardinals, monseigneurs (spelling!) etc that the catholic church is all about

All religion is bullshít
An Early Bath
(550 Posts)
Posted: 12-Apr-2012 23:04
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Originally posted by Utility Full-Forward:
All religion is bullshít

I suppose everyone has a right to their own beliefs...
nlgbbbblth
(3,600 Posts)
Posted: 12-Apr-2012 23:10
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The Church of Ireland is definitely not the liberal bastion people make it out to be. Its members take a harder line on gambling and booze and are generally MORE conservative than the Roman Catholics.

I married into the CoI and my kids are being brought up that way (wife's choice - I'd prefer no religious upbringing but I'm not really fussed). I certainly wouldn't convert across.
carryharry
(4,804 Posts)
Posted: 12-Apr-2012 23:58
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Originally posted by Utility Full-Forward:
All religion is bullshít

Organized religion of any kind is twice as dangerous as any gun or bullet imo.

I attend church on sad or joyous occasions out of respect for those who ask me to be there, or those who are there in death.

Utility Full-Forward
(723 Posts)
Posted: 13-Apr-2012 00:52
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Originally posted by carryharry:

Organized religion of any kind is twice as dangerous as any gun or bullet imo.I attend church on sad or joyous occasions out of respect for those who ask me to be there, or those who are there in death.

Totally agree with you
JohnMcCain
(702 Posts)
Posted: 13-Apr-2012 02:35
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Originally posted by moycullen14:
What if you did the research and found the CofI was more to your taste.? Would you change and would it be seen as some sort of social statement? Are there many converts? As I said above, I had never come across it till recently.

The fact that a religion is more to your taste does not make it doctrinally correct. The Catholic Church has an unbroken link back to the first Pope -Peter. The Anglican Church (Church of England) had its genesis in the split between Henry V111 and Rome. Henry was refused a divorce so he broke with Rome. This led to the formation of the C of E (Church of England) The Church of Ireland is its sister Anglican Church. Large numbers of Anglicans in England are converting to Catholicism. The Anglican Church has so many strands of belief that it has become a joke. There are even Anglican Bishops who don’t believe in the Resurrection. The Anglican Church in England is deeply split. The Catholic Church is the Church founded by Jesus Christ when he said " Thou art Peter and upon this rock I build my Church"
The Pope is the successor of Peter. No way would I ever consider becoming a member of the Church of Ireland. The Church of Ireland is a man made Church as are all Protestant Churches. The Catholic Church was set up by Jesus Christ.
There are 1,200 Million Catholics in the World. There are only 77 million Anglicans like the Church of Ireland.
FTJC
(1,138 Posts)
Posted: 13-Apr-2012 05:32
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Originally posted by nlgbbbblth:
The Church of Ireland is definitely not the liberal bastion people make it out to be. Its members take a harder line on gambling and booze and are generally MORE conservative than the Roman Catholics.I married into the CoI and my kids are being brought up that way (wife's choice - I'd prefer no religious upbringing but I'm not really fussed). I certainly wouldn't convert across.


My mrs is COI and I have to say I find it a fairer more sensible teaching of catholicism
Let's not forgot that Church of Ireland are catholics as well!
Personally i'm no great fan of organised religion but having experienced Roman Catholic and Church of Ireland ways of doing catholicism i'd be in favour of COI if pushed on the matter.

The Badger
(862 Posts)
Posted: 13-Apr-2012 09:12
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When you consider how the role of God has been disproven in all his great alleged achievements such as creating the universe, stars, planets, Earth itself and all life the argument of whether Catholicism or Protestantism is better is rather academic
Glinnti Glasa
(2,183 Posts)
Posted: 13-Apr-2012 09:28
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I'd rather be a Catholic agnostic than a protestant one.
Portumna Bridge
(1,320 Posts)
Posted: 13-Apr-2012 09:42
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I've always admired the lack of any dogmatic lecturing hierarchy and personal relationship with God that the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) have. They meet in a room to contemplate and share their faith. They try really hard to live a good life and have a proud history of non-violence. I admire their work ethic, and their belief in being good employers - the Bewleys, Jacobs, Cadburys and Rowntrees were hard working people who looked after their workers. They achieved much without building massive places to worship or without the instruction of priest, bishop or pope. I'm sure there are some downsides to bing a Quaker, but they have much to recommend themselves.....
flattythehurdler
(1,220 Posts)
Posted: 13-Apr-2012 10:16
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I agree wholeheartedly with both of the above.
carryharry
(4,804 Posts)
Posted: 13-Apr-2012 10:27
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Long time no see Flatty. Where you being lad?
flattythehurdler
(1,220 Posts)
Posted: 13-Apr-2012 10:46
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Always lurking. Was home for a few days, did the connemara run. My oul fella's broadband is not very broad. All well otherwise. Hope work is good. Flaked busy myself. Feel much better for the few days off that's for sure, I was flagging. Have had a bad feeling about Glaway this season. They had some great results early on, but I think to be honest they are at 7 or 8 in the rankings at the minute, and maybe div1b is their level. The only thing is I reckon another year of topflight in this league format would really stand to them and will be a bit sick if they go down as I think this new league format is a really good one and will really bring div1a teams closer to each other and farther from the rest. Anyway, back to the religious wars. If there is a God, he must be tearing his hair out. Stay well lad, maybe catch you for a drink one of the championship weekends.
carryharry
(4,804 Posts)
Posted: 13-Apr-2012 11:31
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I fancy ye to beat Dublin flatty as i did Waterford if they were in the relegation final.

In fairness, ye have some bright prospects coming through so future looks good. Niall Burke looks a real star in the making.

If Tipp and Galway cross paths we;l meet up for a few scoops lad. Be good.
goggles doyle
(590 Posts)
Posted: 13-Apr-2012 11:33
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I feel the old testament, scriptures etc are man made stories and reflect the times they were written in. Not to say they can't be used for spritual reflection etc, but can be interpreted differently and for one's own agenda.
The Story of Jesus, M,M,L & J I think is inherently good, and it often amazes me how it stands the test of time. The life and message of Jesus is still good and harder to criticise than say that of other prophets etc.
I believe in our world there a balance in everything, from the universe, from nature, from health, mind and body, from ourselves, thoughts and actions, from life. Ying and Yang, karma.
I am a catholic and probably always will be, and will raise my children as catholics, but I am also a member of the GAA. I disagree with alot of what both teach or how both are administered but will remain a member because i believe both are good. Just a simple comparsion.
kelticwave
(521 Posts)
Posted: 13-Apr-2012 11:42
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At least the Old Testament didn't threaten you with hell for eternity if you didn't do what you were told.
glasandbán
(2,046 Posts)
Posted: 13-Apr-2012 11:44
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Originally posted by JohnMcCain:

The fact that a religion is more to your taste does not make it doctrinally correct. The Catholic Church has an unbroken link back to the first Pope -Peter. The Anglican Church (Church of England) had its genesis in the split between Henry V111 and Rome. Henry was refused a divorce so he broke with Rome. This led to the formation of the C of E (Church of England) The Church of Ireland is its sister Anglican Church. Large numbers of Anglicans in England are converting to Catholicism. The Anglican Church has so many strands of belief that it has become a joke. There are even Anglican Bishops who don’t believe in the Resurrection. The Anglican Church in England is deeply split. The Catholic Church is the Church founded by Jesus Christ when he said " Thou art Peter and upon this rock I build my Church"
The Pope is the successor of Peter. No way would I ever consider becoming a member of the Church of Ireland. The Church of Ireland is a man made Church as are all Protestant Churches. The Catholic Church was set up by Jesus Christ.
There are 1,200 Million Catholics in the World. There are only 77 million Anglicans like the Church of Ireland.

Don't see how any of those points are of any relevance really. Most Catholics take an a la carte approach to what the Catholic Church teaches anyway, and the fact that the Catholic Church has contradicted its earlier positions so many times means that people don't feel the need to take seriously what the Vaticans views on issues such as contraception, homsexuality, the role of women and so on might be. The Catholic Church may have been set up by Jesus Christ (bit questionable) but it is equally man made as the Church of Ireland. Both subscribe to the same foundational beliefs. The Catholic Church's hierarchy, social teachings, exclusions, abuses, wealth, are all man made things that are very far from any Church that Jesus Christ would have envisaged.

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