An Fear Rua - Cody’s fear for hurling By Diarmuid O’Flynn

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Topic: Cody’s fear for hurling By Diarmuid O’Flynn
ian o b (438 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 14:12	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
ian o b (438 Posts)	Wednesday, May 02, 2012 Kilkenny boss Brian Cody is fearful GAA chiefs are "trying to take genuine physicality" out of hurling. Cody, speaking ahead of Sunday’s Allianz Hurling League final against Cork, is worried the manliness of the sport is under threat. Cody said: "I worry — for some mad reason everybody thinks this is madness — that the physicality of the game is being looked at in a negative way. "It’s just part and parcel of the game and always has been. "Apart from these unfortunate cruciate injuries or natural injuries that can happen, there is no dirt in the game at all. "But in my head I believe that they are trying to take genuine physicality out of the game. "And I wish they would stop doing that. I’ll be probably pilloried for this and that this is the type of game we want to play as we’re looked on as this massively physical team. I don’t see it that way at all, not in the slightest." The legendary manager also has concerns about the pressure on referees to appease assessors first and foremost. "I just think the referees have to be allowed to use their common sense. To use their interpretation of how the game should be played and the spirit of how the game should be played. They are being assessed out of the woods altogether. "Referees are going out to do the very best job they can. They are going to make mistakes. "I make several mistakes with regard to managing the Kilkenny team. The players I pick make mistakes as well, everybody does make honest, genuine mistakes. "Referees are going to make genuine mistakes but they should be left alone." The proof of what he says is in the All-Ireland final, when a referee will call it as he sees it, the assessor no longer a factor, the shackles off. "Everybody raved about the All-Ireland finals for the past three or four years, about the quality of the games; the referee was a fundamental part of that. Where you could begin to have a problem with the kind of games those were I don’t know. "But that’s just my opinion, my opinion is right for me, it’s not right for everybody necessarily. I’m not going to start giving out about referees in the slightest but I have always given out about the fact they are assessed left, right and centre and that the league is always refereed differently to the championship. "Nobody will convince me otherwise." Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/codys-fear-for-hurling-192530.html#ixzz1tiYSiZkB
carryharry (4,804 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 14:46	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
carryharry (4,804 Posts)	Good man Brian, bigging up the poor ref's the week of the league final.
william munny (173 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 14:47	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
william munny (173 Posts)	Whilst one has to admire the sheer relentlessness year in year out of this kk team married with truly brilliant skill and cody's tremendous ability to re-energisethe hunger of his players , he's also talking complete and utter s**te as regards the 'manliness' of the game. That word 'manliness' really gets on my goat because its a euphemism that means you can be as filthy as you can get away with and you can file it under 'manliness' : dig the cornerforward repeatedly in the back ? That's a-manliness . Stick the butt of your hurley into a faceguard ?That's not dirty,just manliness. Pull two foot below the ball ? That's manliness Clatter the ref ? That's manliness. In fact, you can just about excuse any violent transgression on the field of play against the rules with the word 'manliness'.Unfortunately,there's an absent genuine , agenda-free commentator who will castigate the ridiculous amount of fouling that's being ignored,all to let the game flow. The last few all-irelands weren't brilliant because of a laissezfaire attitude of refs - they were brilliant because of the super skills of the two protaganists DESPITE the constant ignored fouling. Now, in order to compete at this level ,all teams have to ratchet up the physical attrition to stop opponents and many matches are reduced to serial scrums,pulling,dragging etc. The sinbin was a great idea because it forced more emphasis on proper skilful tackling but we all know who put the Gaa authorities back in their box. The thing is KK would be even more ahead of the posse if the game put further empphasis on skill than fouling but that's not likely any time soon when himself speaks is such glowing terms of fouling.
Roberto Jordan (825 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 15:17	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Roberto Jordan (825 Posts)	I also think this is rubbish.... refs HAVE clamped down on some aspects of play that i believe are legitimate....so I see frees been given more and more for what I woudl cal "good hard pulling" on the ground or in the air. However what they have not addressed correctly is what I think Cody is referring to.....the proliferation of barging/ running with raised hurley / using hurley as a shield etc. by those in possession and strong arm tackling/ tackling by multiple individuals etc. by those not in possession is ruining the game in my view and is a relatively recent occurance..... There is no tackle in hurling when a man has the ball in his hand other than the shoulder and there is no allowance in spirit of rules of the game for running through defenders....but watching inter county game in recent years would not know this...... Yes the intensity and pace of some of teh tipp KK games has been impressive but I honestly look at many of te aspects of those games relating to making/ breaking tackling and i dont like what I see........ I remember ollie baker being given teh line for pulling across a hurley when oppoent was soloing below in teh Pairc about 10 or 12 years ago....nowadays he would just put his arm acorss his opponents chest and wait for two more defenders to join in........that is if the attacker hadnt blown him out of teh way with a frontal charge with a raised hurley first.....
Hidalgo (2,114 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 15:33	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Hidalgo (2,114 Posts)	Originally posted by Roberto Jordan: I also think this is rubbish....refs HAVE clamped down on some aspects of play that i believe are legitimate....so I see frees been given more and more for what I woudl cal "good hard pulling" on the ground or in the air.However what they have not addressed correctly is what I think Cody is referring to.....the proliferation of barging/ running with raised hurley / using hurley as a shield etc. by those in possession and strong arm tackling/ tackling by multiple individuals etc. by those not in possession is ruining the game in my view and is a relatively recent occurance.....There is no tackle in hurling when a man has the ball in his hand other than the shoulder and there is no allowance in spirit of rules of the game for running through defenders.... Yet the shoulder to shoulder tackle is being blown by some refs nowadays, esp in Clare club hurling anyhow. More and more, the player that wins the shoulder to shoulder tackle is being penalised, majority of the time it's simply a case of a stronger player shouldering a weaker player.
loughcurraman (1,456 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 15:51	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
loughcurraman (1,456 Posts)	Well said , Brian. I agree with you 100 per cent.
manfromdelmonte (2,268 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 15:56	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
manfromdelmonte (2,268 Posts)	it was kilkenny who introduced the more physicl side to hurling from 2000 onwards with less emphasis on moving the ball and more on taking on/out your man
Rebel CNC (4,232 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 16:30	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Rebel CNC (4,232 Posts)	Originally posted by Hidalgo: Yet the shoulder to shoulder tackle is being blown by some refs nowadays, esp in Clare club hurling anyhow. More and more, the player that wins the shoulder to shoulder tackle is being penalised, majority of the time it's simply a case of a stronger player shouldering a weaker player. Yeah. In fairness to Michael Wadding he got it right in Cork KK league game. Fennelly blew Lehane over the sideline and play went on - simply fair shoulder by much stronger player on younger, less well built opponent. He did however blow up for the frontal charging and the holding back opponent or holding opponent's hurley in the tackle. Everyone wants to see the game flow and good physical match but laws of the game have to be applied too.
Yojimbo (13,947 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 16:33	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Yojimbo (13,947 Posts)	Perfect timing!
Joe's Toes (1,091 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 16:47	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Joe's Toes (1,091 Posts)	This is almost an annual rant by Cody at this stage. He is dead wrong. The game is physical enough. By all means we want to see the game flow and if people play by the rules it will. What Cody wants though Cody gets from the GAA. His holieness out the mockers on the sin-bin because the GAA were too thin skinned to stand up to him. What Cody must realise, and sometimes I seriously wonder, is that he is just passing thruough, the game is our legacy, and taking his 'Manlieness' approach thru to its ultimate conclusion, it will be a game for the biggest, strongest and meanest, not the quickest, most skillfull or brilliant hurler. By the way, Brian, fouling is not manliness, and by implication, if you are fouled, its not womanly to get a free. The GAA make the rules, the refereee implement the rules and its up to the managers and players to play within the rules. Anything else is bvllsh1t.
Open the Shoulders (439 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 16:58	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Open the Shoulders (439 Posts)	Originally posted by Yojimbo: Perfect timing! You are obviously posting on the wrong thread there YoDumbo. this is a hurling topic. Your inaccurate english soccer prediction thread is elsewhere.
glasandbán (2,046 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 17:05	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
glasandbán (2,046 Posts)	There's another problem that has come into the equation here, and that is that in those last three all irelands that Cody spoke of the team that gave away more frees won. Kk are well schooled in choosing to give away a 21 yard free when there seems to be a chance of a goal on. Maybe more of a penalty is necessary if this type of fouling occurs more than once? Maybe a warning from the ref that the next player to do something similar will get a yellow where there is a persistent similar type of foul? The flip side of this is winning frees. Kk have set the bar and Tipp have stepped up to join them. Both these teams are masters at winning frees by charging and then holding the arm of the defender and going to ground to make it look like they were dragged down. Holding the opponents hurley is another one that ruins the spectacle of the game but is seen as inoccuous and never gets blown.
Tinmar (437 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 17:36	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Tinmar (437 Posts)	Originally posted by Rebel CNC: Yeah. In fairness to Michael Wadding he got it right in Cork KK league game. Fennelly blew Lehane over the sideline and play went on - simply fair shoulder by much stronger player on younger, less well built opponent. Did he get it right? I could have sworn he awarded a free to Cork and gave a yellow card to Michael Fennelly. Mavbe I'm remembering it wrongly. I thought it was a text-book shoulder to shoulder challenge but that didn't stop a few whingers from complaining that it should have actually been a red card! This message has been edited - 02-may-2012 @ 17:42
Hidalgo (2,114 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 17:41	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Hidalgo (2,114 Posts)	Originally posted by glasandbán: There's another problem that has come into the equation here, and that is that in those last three all irelands that Cody spoke of the team that gave away more frees won. Kk are well schooled in choosing to give away a 21 yard free when there seems to be a chance of a goal on. Maybe more of a penalty is necessary if this type of fouling occurs more than once? Maybe a warning from the ref that the next player to do something similar will get a yellow where there is a persistent similar type of foul? The flip side of this is winning frees. Kk have set the bar and Tipp have stepped up to join them. Both these teams are masters at winning frees by charging and then holding the arm of the defender and going to ground to make it look like they were dragged down. Holding the opponents hurley is another one that ruins the spectacle of the game but is seen as inoccuous and never gets blown. The newest trick in the book is when an opponent is running at you, you try and slap the hand of an opponent when he has the sliothar in his hand, this will knock it out and into open play, very cute and difficult for a ref to spot.
Tinmar (437 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 17:41	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Tinmar (437 Posts)	Originally posted by glasandbán: There's another problem that has come into the equation here, and that is that in those last three all irelands that Cody spoke of the team that gave away more frees won. Kk are well schooled in choosing to give away a 21 yard free when there seems to be a chance of a goal on. Maybe more of a penalty is necessary if this type of fouling occurs more than once? Maybe a warning from the ref that the next player to do something similar will get a yellow where there is a persistent similar type of foul? The flip side of this is winning frees. Kk have set the bar and Tipp have stepped up to join them. Both these teams are masters at winning frees by charging and then holding the arm of the defender and going to ground to make it look like they were dragged down. Holding the opponents hurley is another one that ruins the spectacle of the game but is seen as inoccuous and never gets blown. Diarmuid O'Sullivan gave an interview a couple of years ago where he admitted to persistent interference with Martin Comerford's helmet when challenging for a high ball. The tone of the interview seemed to be "aren't these Cork lads great craic, you'd never be up them". Yet Kilkenny are criticised for an awful lot less. This message has been edited - 02-may-2012 @ 17:43
carryharry (4,804 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 17:45	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
carryharry (4,804 Posts)	Originally posted by Hidalgo: The newest trick in the book is when an opponent is running at you, you try and slap the hand of an opponent when he has the sliothar in his hand, this will knock it out and into open play, very cute and difficult for a ref to spot. Glad you mentioned it Hidalgo. The previous coach we had at our club regularly told us to do this. He was always on to us to try and slap the ball out of the oppositions hand. Is this an actual foul?
Anyone but FF (1,490 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 18:02	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Anyone but FF (1,490 Posts)	Ha ha we were only saying it in the dressing room last night that its that time of year that Brian Cody has his usual whinge that manliness is in danger of going out of the game. Cody playing mind games as usual, if refs start clamping down on the "dark arts" then KK are the ones most likely to suffer most. KK like reminding us all that they like to play on the edge, well if you are going to play on the edge you have to accept that you are more susceptible to giving away frees. The whinging that KK fans did after the the game down the pairc a few weeks back was painful to listen to and if they are beaten again next Sunday I assume it will be even worse. Have a look a KK cats and read some of the paranoid rubbish on that site from posters who claim KK are reffed differently to other counties.
glasandbán (2,046 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 18:15	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
glasandbán (2,046 Posts)	I think one of the issues here is the type of frees that are being let go. Things that are considered "small" fouls are simply not being blown, stuff like holding the hurley, too many steps, charging -because fans don't want to see the game ruined with frees or the referee "giving frees for every fiddle faddle". The problem then is that players know they can take these advantages which ruins the spectacle of the game. If players won't get blown for steps or charging there is less need for skillful play or stickwork. But if a ref started blowing all these frees the game would be awful as it would simply be constant frees.
Collig (1,690 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 18:50	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Collig (1,690 Posts)	Originally posted by Tinmar: Diarmuid O'Sullivan gave an interview a couple of years ago where he admitted to persistent interference with Martin Comerford's helmet when challenging for a high ball. The tone of the interview seemed to be "aren't these Cork lads great craic, you'd never be up them". Yet Kilkenny are criticised for an awful lot less. Maybe that was just the tone of the interview in your head? That interview was after he retired and it was put to him that he was the cause of 2 rule changes in the GAA, one relating to the blood sub rule after a blow he was on the receiving end of(I think) and the other for interfering with helmets that time with Comerford. I'd love to know what it is that's "an awful lot less" than unclipping a helmet that KK lads get criticised for? This message has been edited - 02-may-2012 @ 18:54
Collig (1,690 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 18:52	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Collig (1,690 Posts)	Originally posted by Tinmar: Did he get it right? I could have sworn he awarded a free to Cork and gave a yellow card to Michael Fennelly. Mavbe I'm remembering it wrongly.I thought it was a text-book shoulder to shoulder challenge but that didn't stop a few whingers from complaining that it should have actually been a red card! He gave a free to Cork which Pat Horgan converted and a yellow to Fennelly after a frontal shoulder by him. I didn't hear one person say it should have been a red although maybe you just move in different circles...
rebelrebel30 (8,531 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 19:05	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
rebelrebel30 (8,531 Posts)	Originally posted by Tinmar: Diarmuid O'Sullivan gave an interview a couple of years ago where he admitted to persistent interference with Martin Comerford's helmet when challenging for a high ball. The tone of the interview seemed to be "aren't these Cork lads great craic, you'd never be up them". Yet Kilkenny are criticised for an awful lot less. an "awful lot less"...your having us on....sure ye never hit an underhand stroke in a match..........ask Tommy Walsh about fiddling with helmets....
old seaman (146 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 19:38	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
old seaman (146 Posts)	The main problem with the game refereed a la Cody is that refs do see a foul and play an advantage to keep play moving. Often there is no advantage because if you have already been hit by one defender you are very likely to surrender possession to the next one or hit a weak shot. Frees are frees and should be given. Denis Walsh had a good article on this in the Sunday Times and mentioned especially Clare defenders being fouled v Kk and eventually coughing up the ball. Not that I agree with Davy's paranoia!
iced earth (140 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 20:37	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
iced earth (140 Posts)	Originally posted by rebelrebel30: an "awful lot less"...your having us on....sure ye never hit an underhand stroke in a match..........ask Tommy Walsh about fiddling with helmets.... Strokes don't get much more underhand than a blow to the groin area where the player who is struck has to be carried by stretcher from the field of play.
deiseboy (609 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 20:57	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
deiseboy (609 Posts)	Brian Cody is like Alex Ferguson at this stage trying to influence the way the game is reffed. Of course he is not going to want refs to clamp down on physical play because Kilkenny have been very successful over the last decade and did bring a lot of changes to the game in terms of tackling, swarming around opponents and committing cynical fouls on opponents bearing down on goal and picking up yellow cards. They are a fantastic team and have deserved their All Ireland success so it is not begrudgery. Othercounties have followed suit so the game is just not as attractive to watch in the last few years and some of the tackling is more like rugby tackling. The refs don't blow for a lot of blatant fouls resulting in players losing possession and scrum type situations developing. Hurling should be about skill more than strength.
william munny (173 Posts)	Posted: 02-May-2012 21:25	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
william munny (173 Posts)	Iced Earth, a few years ago I saw a recently retired i-c player get off the ground and HEADBUTT an opponents bollocks.Thought that was pretty low i must say. Btw, in the incident that you refer to , you do know that it was his teammate behind the alleged offender that actually dawked the victim? In the words of Maurice Micklewhite....... This message has been edited - 02-may-2012 @ 21:26

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