This message has been edited - 08-may-2012 @ 23:30

Originally posted by 100percent:
I agree with the author. Time to take religeon out of the schools and out of the lives of those that have no interest in it.

Originally posted by jamesp:
Whay is it ok to put forward a view of politics thats formed by reference to a secularist/humanist view of the world but not on a religious view of the world?

Originally posted by The Badger:
Fair play Banner, yes this John Waters character has to be laughted at. He suggested live on air on Newstalk Breakfast that the Occupy Movement was a CIA conspiracy, this really is Jim Corr stuff. Poor Chris Donoghue interviewing him nearly choked listening to his sh1te. And then he calls secular education the producer of 'mindless automotons'. Some cheek given the intellecually bankrupt points of view he has.

Originally posted by absent:
Agreed,when I think back to the difficulty I had in getting my lads to opt out of religious class when studying for the Leaving cert,being told by the principal of the ethos of the school etc,it was a hard fight but we won in the end.

This message has been edited - 09-may-2012 @ 14:45

Originally posted by inbetweeners:
This is a poor article. He never tells us what he wants to do with Religion in schools but it seems he doesn’t want it there. I appreciate he has a word count but he makes a number of statements without any attempt to back them up. “one has the right to practise whichever religion one likes but not to have their particular belief mandated for others, nor the right to impose their viewpoint”Fine I agree but it never occurred to him that imposing secularism in schools, for example, or wherever else, is imposing a secularist viewpoint on those who want religion taught to their children. He seems to think Secularism can be imposed on Religious people but not the other way around.Of course if parents want to remove their children from Religion fine but it shouldn; t be removed from everyone who wants it. He points out that 84% of the population are Catholic but notes.“In any case numbers don’t matter: no groups should get special treatment, nor should any experience discrimination.”Fine but again he wants to impose his secular agenda on those who might not want it. As such he appears to give secularists the special treatment and discriminates against the religious. His reference to cultural Catholics is irrelevant. Does such an entity exists? Yes of course it does but 84% self identify as Catholic and at the very least believe in God. Surely he would attach some importance to that fact when deciding whether religion as opposed to “a religion” is important in the education curriculum. “Without religion, he [John Walters] argued, we would exist in an indifferent universe, an “accidental offspring of the pointless oozing of primordial slime”.
Such existential angst is heard ad nauseam, but it is an argument utterly devoid of merit.”I am sorry but Walters statement is full of merit. Infact it is a trueism. If he done his research properly he would know that there is nothing controversial about this. Richard Dawkins, for example, accepts it. “The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference”I don’t want to get into it again but because atheists don’t believe in objective moral values it is entirely obvious that Walters Statement is correct. He dismisses Walters argument but never tells us why. What exactly is incorrect about Walters argument? This is common place; atheists simply can’t handle the truth of their belief system.I am not relating secularism to atheism becasue they are different but clearly if one has a religion as referred to above that would invoke a belief in God.“she dragged religion into a human rights issue – a jarring but common practice.”What is so jarring about it? Most human rights arose out of Religion. For those typing already - If they didn’t where did they come from?
“If Ireland was a truly secular society, a TD would have zero interest in sin and every interest in solving the actual problem at hand without reference to religious belief.”Yes this is true but again is he saying this should be the case in Ireland?
Finally, the role of religion in education requires debate but knee jerk reactions such as removing it entirely as suggested on this fourm are not useful.

Originally posted by labane1917:
Secularism involves separation of church and state, nothing more, nothing less. Trying to argue that secularism is a belief system like a religion is nonsense. The concept of secularism is both to ensure no religion is given preferential treatment by the state but also just as important that the state does not interfere in the right of people to practice their religion.
The Catholic church has no business being involved in public schools. If they want to set up private schools as they do in many countries and people want to pay to send their kids there, fair enough. If people want their children to get religious instruction, that's what churches are for, not schools.
The argument about ethical and moral values of religious people versus atheists has been done to death but is not relevant to this topic. Most Western countries are secular with complete separation of church and state, can anyone really argue that moral and ethical values are higher in Ireland because of the influence of the Catholic church? Really?