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Topic: Nazis are back
inthenameajaysus (496 Posts)	Posted: 10-May-2012 14:23	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
inthenameajaysus (496 Posts)	http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/07/neo-nazi-golden-dawn-party-greece The neo nazi party is greece has just won 21 seats in their elections amid widespread condemnation of their practices and reports of intimidation of journalists and opposition politicians rife Just wondering how easy would it be for this to kick off again? Of cousre never in my wildest dreams would i expect a repeat of Hitler but the conditions being endured by the greeks are very similar to those of the germans in the 30's both economically and individually (a sense of injustice and dented pride are powerful factors in elections) This message has been edited - 10-may-2012 @ 15:45
inthenameajaysus (496 Posts)	Posted: 10-May-2012 14:42	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
inthenameajaysus (496 Posts)	Neo-Nazis make threats against journalist’s life By Ann Cahill Wednesday, May 09, 2012 Death threats against a journalist and attempts to intimidate the media by a neo-Nazi party that won 21 seats in the Greek election has fuelled fears for the political stability of the country. The threats were condemned by European Commissioner Neelie Kroes. The two main parties, reduced to just over 30% of the seats in the 300-seat parliament between them, failed to form a coalition government. Alexis Tsiparas, leader of the far left group Syriza, which won second place in the weekend election has said he will not include the far right Golden Dawn in his discussions. There are fears that the media is already being intimidated into staying quiet about the group. The journalist, German- born Xenia Kounalaki, foreign editor of Greece’s leading newspaper, Kathimerini, wrote that the party, which she referred to as being made up of Nazi thugs, should have been banned from running in the elections. Almost immediately a long article, with details of Ms Kounalaki’s personal and professional life and that of her 13-year-old daughter, appeared on its website with a veiled threat against her person. The police said they were unable to do anything as the site was registered in the US and the author of the article was unknown. They advised her to stop writing about Golden Dawn for a time. "The fact that many of my friends and colleagues and even the Greek police advised to stop writing against them for a while is a first victory for Golden Dawn," she told Brussels- based EurActiv website.
Rebel CNC (4,232 Posts)	Posted: 10-May-2012 14:57	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Rebel CNC (4,232 Posts)	Conditions are ripe for voters turning to extreme politics. As is the case here, you don't have to have any logical answers or plans for the future, just plug into electorate's hopes for an end to austerity and that you can just magic away that pesky debt and someone will continue to give cheap money to make up spending shortfall. Both the far left and far right did very well in Grecce as did the National Front in France. Ladbrokes have suspended betting on the survival of the euro. Germans may be thinking it best to cut the Greeks adrift and take a big financial hit now rather than risk an even bigger hit by letting them muddle on. This message has been edited - 10-may-2012 @ 15:27
serpico (80 Posts)	Posted: 10-May-2012 18:11	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
serpico (80 Posts)	Just wondering, why don't we have a far right party in Ireland? Not asking for one just wondering why? If we had one what would it look like?
labane1917 (1,438 Posts)	Posted: 10-May-2012 19:14	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
labane1917 (1,438 Posts)	Originally posted by serpico: Just wondering, why don't we have a far right party in Ireland? Not asking for one just wondering why? If we had one what would it look like? Far right parties generally spring up when economic times get truly desperate, other than the 30s Ireland has not had it that bad since Independence. Germany was an economic wasteland in the 30s which led to the rise in fascism. Don't forget Ireland had the blueshirts at the time who supported their kindred spirits Franco, Mussolini and Hitler (read the statements from John A Costello in the Dail debates for context). When things get really tough as they are in Greece, people want someone to blame and the easy targets are those that are different, immigrants the obvious example. All the right wing nuts in Ireland are in Fine Gael, the ones who love to blame the poorest in society for all problems and want to come in to your bedroom and tell you what you can and can't do. There's a few of them on this site, they are easy to spot. This message has been edited - 10-may-2012 @ 19:15
bp (2,408 Posts)	Posted: 10-May-2012 19:18	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
bp (2,408 Posts)	Originally posted by serpico: Just wondering, why don't we have a far right party in Ireland? Not asking for one just wondering why? If we had one what would it look like? The PDs.
Sleekit (76 Posts)	Posted: 10-May-2012 19:22	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Sleekit (76 Posts)	The IRA/Sinn Fein party with their fascist objectives are rising in popularity in Eire!
let it long (1,214 Posts)	Posted: 10-May-2012 20:03	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
let it long (1,214 Posts)	Originally posted by labane1917: Far right parties generally spring up when economic times get truly desperate, other than the 30s Ireland has not had it that bad since Independence. Germany was an economic wasteland in the 30s which led to the rise in fascism. Don't forget Ireland had the blueshirts at the time who supported their kindred spirits Franco, Mussolini and Hitler (read the statements from John A Costello in the Dail debates for context). When things get really tough as they are in Greece, people want someone to blame and the easy targets are those that are different, immigrants the obvious example. All the right wing nuts in Ireland are in Fine Gael, the ones who love to blame the poorest in society for all problems and want to come in to your bedroom and tell you what you can and can't do. There's a few of them on this site, they are easy to spot. Germanys situation was of its own making on the back of WW1. The French decided to twist the knife by confiscating the German industrial heart land and mining regions. Perhaps both countries should have learned a lesson or two from their experiences!!
lopper (1,990 Posts)	Posted: 10-May-2012 20:16	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
lopper (1,990 Posts)	Nazis don't fill potholes or get you planning permission.
Larkin (4,404 Posts)	Posted: 11-May-2012 08:31	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Larkin (4,404 Posts)	This is what happens when people are being downtrodden by the very people they elected. It is compounded in our case by the lies that were told by the government when they were in election mode only to do a u-turn when they got the reigns of power. The New Dawn party in Greece is typical of the knuckle dragging fcukwits that inhabit the far right. They are full of sound-bites that appeal to people who in many cases might not ordinarily vote for them but because they are at the lowest ebb they will take any help. On the other hand there are people who actually believe what these thugs say and will vote for them anyway.
N16 (1,724 Posts)	Posted: 11-May-2012 08:34	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
N16 (1,724 Posts)	Always happens in times of an econimic downturn, people will blame everyone and anyone and a minority will turn to right wing groups who are only too happy to throw the blame onto ethnic minorities. Greece as a country is one of the most corrupt in the modern world, hardly a paragon of anything and the EU should have booted them out 2 years ago and sucked in hard and swallowed whatever consequences.
Banner1995 (474 Posts)	Posted: 11-May-2012 09:06	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Banner1995 (474 Posts)	Greece is really on the edge of the abyss. Yes it is corrupt, but I would still have a lot of sympathy for ordinary Greeks. Thank heavans we do not have extreme right/left wing parties in this country. We can moan about there being little difference between our main parties n this is true but its far better than any one party veering towards the lunatic fringe.
burdizzo (504 Posts)	Posted: 11-May-2012 11:51	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
burdizzo (504 Posts)	I think the reason we don't have a far-right party has to do w/ Irish nationalism being tied up w/ victimhood. "We were oppressed", "800 years", etc. Thus, Irish nationalists identify w/ other 'victims' of history: blacks, Palestinians, and so on. It's funny - the unionists in the north fly Israeli flags, the nationalists fly Palestinian flags! Also, Irish nationalism always seems to celebrate failure - hunger strikes, 1916, 1798, etc. Why not celebrate Warrenpoint??! Okay, that's a bit crude, but the loyalists celebrate 1690, when at least they WON! I mean, no hurling supporter celebrates when their team loses, so... Why wallow in victimhood? Maybe because we've never had an empire, we have no great nationalistic triumphs to celebrate, and therefore we're stuck w/ the losers?! However, those are the reasons I think we have no far-right party. Mind you, a lot of Sinn Fein supporters would certainly have those tendencies.
serpico (80 Posts)	Posted: 11-May-2012 12:03	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
serpico (80 Posts)	Interesting points all! Burdizzo I think your point regarding Sinn Féin is particularly valid. They hold the strong nationalist position in the country but have populist/left wing economic policy. This in someway results in a divide and conquer effect on any potential nucleation of far-right groups in the traditional European sense. To say that the PDs represented a far-right group is a bit unfair, though economically they esposed hard right policies they never coupled that with an ethnic bashing, nationalist element. They were probably most analogous to the conservatives of Thatcher.
burdizzo (504 Posts)	Posted: 11-May-2012 12:17	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
burdizzo (504 Posts)	Yes, exactly - Sinn Fein has the market cornered when it comes to nationalistic flag flying. In addition, they certainly mix nationalism and socailism, so in a classic sense are 'fascistic'. However, as I say, they identify w/ victims, so the foreigner-bashing they indulge in would be against 'oppressors'. Thus, Spanish (Basque), Israel (Palestine), Britain and America (everyone!). You name it. I always think the term 'far-right' is a misnomer, as most of these European parties do combine socailist economic policies w/ nationalism, just their nationalism celebrates strength, not weakness. Besides, how would these so-called 'far right' parties appeal to the working classes if they didn't have socailist policies? And, let's face it, that's where a lot of their support comes from. It could be summed up as, 'equality and fairness for every one of us'!
ballygowan (1,987 Posts)	Posted: 11-May-2012 14:44	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
ballygowan (1,987 Posts)	Originally posted by burdizzo: Yes, exactly - Sinn Fein has the market cornered when it comes to nationalistic flag flying. In addition, they certainly mix nationalism and socailism, so in a classic sense are 'fascistic'. However, as I say, they identify w/ victims, so the foreigner-bashing they indulge in would be against 'oppressors'. Thus, Spanish (Basque), Israel (Palestine), Britain and America (everyone!). You name it. I always think the term 'far-right' is a misnomer, as most of these European parties do combine socailist economic policies w/ nationalism, just their nationalism celebrates strength, not weakness. Besides, how would these so-called 'far right' parties appeal to the working classes if they didn't have socailist policies? And, let's face it, that's where a lot of their support comes from. It could be summed up as, 'equality and fairness for every one of us'! Good points - it's more of a political circle than a straight line - with the far left very close to the far right! The Nazis in Germany called their "program" National Socialism...
flattythehurdler (1,220 Posts)	Posted: 11-May-2012 14:51	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
flattythehurdler (1,220 Posts)	They might fill your pothole with a Panzer.
let it long (1,214 Posts)	Posted: 11-May-2012 16:55	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
let it long (1,214 Posts)	Originally posted by ballygowan: Good points - it's more of a political circle than a straight line - with the far left very close to the far right! The Nazis in Germany called their "program" National Socialism... Nazi is an abbreviation of the term National socialism
Rebel CNC (4,232 Posts)	Posted: 11-May-2012 17:06	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Rebel CNC (4,232 Posts)	Originally posted by ballygowan: Good points - it's more of a political circle than a straight line - with the far left very close to the far right! The Nazis in Germany called their "program" National Socialism... The initial targets of Nazi party anger were bankers and industrialists. They denounced the capitalist system for profiteering during ww1 rather than working to support the cause of the German nation.
ballygowan (1,987 Posts)	Posted: 11-May-2012 23:21	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
ballygowan (1,987 Posts)	Originally posted by let it long: Nazi is an abbreviation of the term National socialism Nice! Didn't know that
burdizzo (504 Posts)	Posted: 12-May-2012 11:12	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
burdizzo (504 Posts)	And the official name for the Nazi party was the NSDAP - the German National Socialist Workers' Party. There's a famous photo of a German working class district in the 1920s w/ Nazi and Soviet flags flying alongside each other. In fact, the brownshirts were the strongly socailist element in the Nazi party, and were eventually purged when they got too powerful. However, the catch-cry used to be "First brown, then red!" implying that many saw national socialism as a first step on the road to 'fully-fledged' socailism.
absent (1,452 Posts)	Posted: 14-May-2012 00:14	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
absent (1,452 Posts)	Originally posted by labane1917: Far right parties generally spring up when economic times get truly desperate, other than the 30s Ireland has not had it that bad since Independence. Germany was an economic wasteland in the 30s which led to the rise in fascism. Don't forget Ireland had the blueshirts at the time who supported their kindred spirits Franco, Mussolini and Hitler (read the statements from John A Costello in the Dail debates for context). When things get really tough as they are in Greece, people want someone to blame and the easy targets are those that are different, immigrants the obvious example. All the right wing nuts in Ireland are in Fine Gael, the ones who love to blame the poorest in society for all problems and want to come in to your bedroom and tell you what you can and can't do. There's a few of them on this site, they are easy to spot. Where is John McCain whe he is needed!!
Joe's Toes (1,091 Posts)	Posted: 14-May-2012 08:50	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Joe's Toes (1,091 Posts)	Originally posted by bp: The PDs. It just goes to show that you dont have a clue. Or dont know your history.. Probably both. The PD s were formed out of FF in the main - by a rump led by Dessie O'Malley disgusted with Charlie's carry on and the inertia contained within a party that tried to be friends to everyone so could never make a decision. At that time - FF had opposed the Angle Irish agreement and divorce and any socially progressive policy at all was opposed - all for the expediency of winning at the ballot box instead of what was right for Ireland. They alse recognised the need for economic liberalisation at this time so... The PD's were a real breath of fresh air at that time - Far from a right wing party - Socially Liberal and ecomically - they were for low income tax. If thats your definition of right wing you need to quit college and get a real job. Nazi's - people associate them with skinheads now - National Socialism people - SOCIALISM - they were the dark edge to the desperate working class another branch of the left who let free the Pandor's box of nationalism. The Nazi's of the 1930's could never happen again in Europe - not in that form anyway. What happened could happen again if Europe does not get its act together - so yes - we are fcked!!!

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