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Tipperary V Cork MSHC
carryharry
(4,804 Posts)
Posted:
20-Jun-2012 09:20
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Only a few days away yet. Anyone care to have a stab at team selections? Does anyone see any shock selections in store and maybe a few predictions for the final score.
I think the Tipperary lineup will be as follows;
Cummins
D Maher P Curran M Cahill
T Stapleton C O'Mahony P Maher
B Maher S McGrath
Bonnar N McGrath P Bourke
S Bourke E Kelly Buggy
I think Declan will hold Callinan and Corbett in reserve.
Hoping for a Tipperary victory obviously but can't help but have a sneaky feeling for the draw @ 10/1.
Could we be set for a return leg in Thurles?
Surprised Cork are 5/4 with PP and Tipp 8/11, considering Corks history of beating Tipp in Senior championship in Cork i would have thought those odds would be the other way round. The betting will probably be closer to Evens for both teams on the day.
Legalalien
(1,681 Posts)
Posted:
20-Jun-2012 10:36
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http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/tipperary-poised-to-drop-talisman-kelly-for-raid-on-rebel-territory-3144825.html
Independent reckons that Eoin Kelly will be dropped.
Now at 7 this mionring they had a picture of Eoin Kelly from Waterford but thankfully it has now been corrected so not sure how accurate the source.
Whilst Eoin Kelly has been one of the great hurlers of his generation, his form in recent matches has tailed off a bit and so wouldn;t be a great surprise.
I know Tipp don't have a great record down in Cork (to be fair very few teams win there), I think the championship opener will have blown a lot of cobwebs out of the Tipp side and think they will be just too strong for Cork.
After the league final defeat, this is the ideal match for JBM. He is in a no lose position imo. If he loses, people will say they expected so and it is part of the rebuilding programme. If he wins, an absolute bonus. The young lad doing the leaving is a big loss but JBM is shaping this team into a nice bunch of hurlers. Still think they are weak at the back, and whilst tipp were a young team in 2010 and caught on the hop, I think Tipp need to lay a marker down for the rest of the year.
The game on Saturday could also sharpen minds. If KK lose, do you want to be in the hat with them in the qualifiers?
Not Men But Giants
(623 Posts)
Posted:
20-Jun-2012 10:51
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How will Cork line up?
Sad that Eoin Kelly's injuries have seemingly deteriorated so much. He has been a pillar of the Cork Tipp games for the last decade. Pure wizard.
Tipp to win and beat Waterford easy in the final but to come unstuck further on, they aren't clicking anywhere near as well as they were under Sheedy and the Corbett circus will only distract them.
Cork still a bit short in my opinion but would love to see them do it. We all know how sublime Cork Waterford games are.
Blanco
(7,909 Posts)
Posted:
20-Jun-2012 11:01
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Originally posted by Legalalien:
I think Tipp need to lay a marker down for the rest of the year.The game on Saturday could also sharpen minds.
This Tipp team don't tend to lay down markers(Last years Munster final aside), they normally tend to do just enough to get them by from game to game, they are quite lazy like that.
But this Tipp do need to give a performance , it has been quite a while since they have , they were poor against Dublin and KK in last years AI Semi and Final and they were awful for the majority of the Limerick game, they had a lazy low workrate attitude in all these matches.
They need to kick start things again and no better place than down in Cork to do that , it's big test as Cork are never easy down there and you have the JBM factor now as well.
No point in sugar coating it, it will be a big set back to lose on Sunday and will have a lot wondering in Tipp where are we going with this management and team.
lovelyriver
(171 Posts)
Posted:
20-Jun-2012 11:31
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there is nothing the matter with the tipp management team. Ryan Gleeson & Dunne have built up the strongest panel the county has had in manys the year. Management cant force players to perform, Noel Mcgrath being a case in point. all they can do is drop him. they cant make callinan into anything other than a tippy tappy waster. With the exception of maybe 1 or 2 they have the best players in tipp on the panel, Sheedy on the other hand had the team loaded with lads who should hand back their medals.
Eoin Kellys back problem has cleared and he is going well in training. Whatever he has to offer is at fullforward only. Him at full and Buggy at centre would be an interesting combination. Remember the manager won an AI for Tipp almost on his own at full and Declan could hardly walk fast at that stage. Shane Bourke, John ONeill all better options than callinan. Conor Obrien will definitely play a role on Sunday as he is the star performer in training
Barry
(492 Posts)
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20-Jun-2012 11:32
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No question but that this a hard one for Tipp to win.
Cork'll really fancy their chances against Tipp down in the Pairc,and why would'nt they given Tipp's dismal record down there over the years?
'Tis going to be mighty close methinks and I would'nt dare call it.
Am travelling and hope it'll be as good a game as the first Munster semi last Sunday.
Turenne
(1,088 Posts)
Posted:
20-Jun-2012 12:10
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John Horgan in the Echo seemed to be suggesting the following...
Nash
S. O'Neill S. McDonnell B. Murphy
C. Joyce E. Cadogan W. Egan
D. Sweetnam L. McLoughlin
C. Lehane P. Cronin C. Naughton
J. Coughlan P. O'Sullivan P. Horgan
He could just be guessing though.
Blanco
(7,909 Posts)
Posted:
20-Jun-2012 12:15
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Originally posted by lovelyriver:
Sheedy on the other hand had the team loaded with lads who should hand back their medals.
Who exactly on the team should hand back their medals?
carryharry
(4,804 Posts)
Posted:
20-Jun-2012 12:16
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Agreed Blanco.
That was a mad statement!
keeper
(3 Posts)
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20-Jun-2012 13:36
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Declan might have a strong panel but if he doesnt get the right balance with the starting team he is at nothing. The starting team against Limerick had a chronic lack of pace in the forwards and will have to be addressed. He mainly stayed loyal to a team that had done poorly in the league.
Im not sure that he will make wholesale changes from the last day with Bonnar in for Gearoid Ryan and Shane McGrath in for James Woodlock being the likely ones.
One of Lar, Callinan or Shane Bourke need to start also if we are to have a chance. Personally I would start Lar. No point messing about with him like we did with Brendan Maher last year. Give him the game time now and have him right for the business end of the year.
A bit worried about Donagh Maher and Tom Stapleton. Dont think we have a whole lot of choice in these positions at the moment but long term I dont think either of them are the answer.
rebelrebel30
(8,531 Posts)
Posted:
20-Jun-2012 13:50
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Originally posted by Legalalien:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/tipperary-poised-to-drop-talisman-kelly-for-raid-on-rebel-territory-3144825.htmlIndependent reckons that Eoin Kelly will be dropped.
Now at 7 this mionring they had a picture of Eoin Kelly from Waterford but thankfully it has now been corrected so not sure how accurate the source.Whilst Eoin Kelly has been one of the great hurlers of his generation, his form in recent matches has tailed off a bit and so wouldn;t be a great surprise.I know Tipp don't have a great record down in Cork (to be fair very few teams win there), I think the championship opener will have blown a lot of cobwebs out of the Tipp side and think they will be just too strong for Cork. After the league final defeat, this is the ideal match for JBM. He is in a no lose position imo. If he loses, people will say they expected so and it is part of the rebuilding programme. If he wins, an absolute bonus. The young lad doing the leaving is a big loss but JBM is shaping this team into a nice bunch of hurlers. Still think they are weak at the back, and whilst tipp were a young team in 2010 and caught on the hop, I think Tipp need to lay a marker down for the rest of the year.The game on Saturday could also sharpen minds. If KK lose, do you want to be in the hat with them in the qualifiers?
Probably would agree with a lot of that, the one craveat, i think this Cork team even so early in its developement is better than DW 2010 team who beat Tipp ( Cussen anyone?)
Eric
(285 Posts)
Posted:
20-Jun-2012 13:51
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You have some cheek calling Callinan a "tippy tappy waster" after all he has done for Tipp since his debut in 2008.
One of the best scoring records from play in Ireland since 2008 also.
He is vital for Tipp if they are to win an all ireland. John O'Neill a batter option? He will be lucky to make the 26 from a very reliable source.
lovelyriver
(171 Posts)
Posted:
20-Jun-2012 14:08
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Originally posted by Blanco:
Who exactly on the team should hand back their medals?
A bit of hyperbole maybe but if you want I'll name 5-6 Sheedy had on the panel not next or near county standard. Ryan & Co have maybe 1 or 2
lovelyriver
(171 Posts)
Posted:
20-Jun-2012 14:23
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Originally posted by Eric:
You have some cheek calling Callinan a "tippy tappy waster" after all he has done for Tipp since his debut in 2008.One of the best scoring records from play in Ireland since 2008 also. He is vital for Tipp if they are to win an all ireland. John O'Neill a batter option? He will be lucky to make the 26 from a very reliable source.
Maybe you shoud focus on what he hasnt done. Useless in last years final, by far the worst tipp performer & should have been the first to go. If tipp had been playing a more experienced team than Limerick the last day his Arshavin-type attempt for a goal would have resulted in what happened to Russia, a goal, & tipp would have been bet. He spent years getting a goal & a point or two at the start of a match and then doing nothing for teh guts of an hour. Plus his display in the county final last year was a disgrace, ran away from Okeeffe. Some of those great Drom lads should have lifted the cup instead. Scoring stats are only a small part of the story. Eoin Kelly is prob one of the top scorers for waterford, would you seriously put him in the same ballpark as Mullane/Ken McGrath/ Tony Browne/ Shanahan etc?
The longer Callinan was inj the better he got...
Sledgehammer
(459 Posts)
Posted:
20-Jun-2012 14:38
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Originally posted by lovelyriver:
Maybe you shoud focus on what he hasnt done. Useless in last years final, by far the worst tipp performer & should have been the first to go. If tipp had been playing a more experienced team than Limerick the last day his Arshavin-type attempt for a goal would have resulted in what happened to Russia, a goal, & tipp would have been bet. He spent years getting a goal & a point or two at the start of a match and then doing nothing for teh guts of an hour. Plus his display in the county final last year was a disgrace, ran away from Okeeffe. Some of those great Drom lads should have lifted the cup instead. Scoring stats are only a small part of the story. Eoin Kelly is prob one of the top scorers for waterford, would you seriously put him in the same ballpark as Mullane/Ken McGrath/ Tony Browne/ Shanahan etc?
The longer Callinan was inj the better he got...
Harsh, harsh, but probably agree to a certain extent, would like to see him used as a sub. My biggest problem with him is he blows hot and cold, has tonnes of pace and hurling ability but goes missing in games.
Getting back to original point I can only see Kelly at FF, which means I can only see Buggy at centre, where I think we might have some joy from him also.
lovelyriver
(171 Posts)
Posted:
20-Jun-2012 14:45
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Originally posted by Sledgehammer:
Harsh, harsh, but probably agree to a certain extent, would like to see him used as a sub. My biggest problem with him is he blows hot and cold, has tonnes of pace and hurling ability but goes missing in games.Getting back to original point I can only see Kelly at FF, which means I can only see Buggy at centre, where I think we might have some joy from him also.
Kelly can only play at full now & Buggy is as good on the half line as full so thats a real plan if Eoin is to be played
lovelyriver
(171 Posts)
Posted:
20-Jun-2012 16:12
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Originally posted by rebelrebel30:
Probably would agree with a lot of that, the one craveat, i think this Cork team even so early in its developement is better than DW 2010 team who beat Tipp ( Cussen anyone?)
Could be some truth in that but with this caveat, that Cork team had Cusack, the two OConnors, Kenny & Curran. Cussen was only a sub v Tipp, certainly Aisake wouldnt be as good as lads on the present team...but the 5 above? Cork have seven of that team, N Mac inj maybe?, and two of the subs for selection. Interestingly Tipp have 13 of their team available plus 3 of the subs
phildafluter
(54 Posts)
Posted:
20-Jun-2012 21:07
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I recon cork will get a reality check, there still miles off where they need to be . People in cork recon JBM is some sort of magician . The players just are not good enough at present and the younger lads have improved things . But when ya compair what tipp have to bring off the bench to cork. The gulf is huge. Tipp by +6
Turenne
(1,088 Posts)
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20-Jun-2012 22:08
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Originally posted by phildafluter:
I recon cork will get a reality check, there still miles off where they need to be . People in cork recon JBM is some sort of magician . The players just are not good enough at present and the younger lads have improved things . But when ya compair what tipp have to bring off the bench to cork. The gulf is huge. Tipp by +6
Agreed.
seanie
(1,079 Posts)
Posted:
20-Jun-2012 22:30
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Originally posted by phildafluter:
I recon cork will get a reality check, there still miles off where they need to be . People in cork recon JBM is some sort of magician . The players just are not good enough at present and the younger lads have improved things . But when ya compair what tipp have to bring off the bench to cork. The gulf is huge. Tipp by +6
CORRECT 100%, the reality is cork have failed miserably to understand or attempt to come to terms with modern hurling. JBM has a huge job, however his greyhounds over elephants theory was blown out of the water vs kk, and apparently it was shown up again in the recent challenge vs dublin. I would expect tipp to simply have too mcuh physically and a far stronger bench when required. Niall mac a huge loss for cork as I feel he could possibly have broken even with maher.
Corks forwards in particular simply dont have the work rate required for this level.
johnny cash
(737 Posts)
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20-Jun-2012 22:45
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jbm is some sort of a magican if he can manage cork to a win on sunday. he is a minor miracle worker if he guides them to a munster title!!!
Originally posted by phildafluter:
I recon cork will get a reality check, there still miles off where they need to be . People in cork recon JBM is some sort of magician . The players just are not good enough at present and the younger lads have improved things . But when ya compair what tipp have to bring off the bench to cork. The gulf is huge. Tipp by +6
Eric
(285 Posts)
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20-Jun-2012 23:04
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Originally posted by lovelyriver:
Maybe you shoud focus on what he hasnt done. Useless in last years final, by far the worst tipp performer & should have been the first to go. If tipp had been playing a more experienced team than Limerick the last day his Arshavin-type attempt for a goal would have resulted in what happened to Russia, a goal, & tipp would have been bet. He spent years getting a goal & a point or two at the start of a match and then doing nothing for teh guts of an hour. Plus his display in the county final last year was a disgrace, ran away from Okeeffe. Some of those great Drom lads should have lifted the cup instead. Scoring stats are only a small part of the story. Eoin Kelly is prob one of the top scorers for waterford, would you seriously put him in the same ballpark as Mullane/Ken McGrath/ Tony Browne/ Shanahan etc?
The longer Callinan was inj the better he got...
2009 Final: After getting a disgraceful belt in the first few mins by Jackie Tyrrell he had a terrific 2nd half scoring 3 points from play and was denied a goal by a terrific save from PJ Ryan.
2010 Final: Didnt start rightly due to loss of form but came on and scored brilliant points to help us to our first all ireland in 10 years.
2011 Final: Had a poor first half. Can you name someone besides Bonner who had agood 1st half please. And Callinan was the first to go.
I think you appear to have some sort of personal grudge against the player. If you are goin to start bring up his record for Drom-Inch. He had a quiet 45 mins in last years final but gave an exhibition in the last 15 mins when the game was there to be won.
If you ask any of the Drom lads they will tell you he is always there for his club when needed, scored a point from 100 yards to win against Burgess earlier in the year and went to town against Toome and Muillinahone in quarter and semi.
His record is better than what Larry Corbetts was in his first few years playing inter county but I am not going to go down your road of slating brilliant hurlers behind a keyboard especially when talking plain and utter rubbish.
And to clarify Eoin Kelly (Wat) record is nowhere near Callinans when it comes to scoring from PLAY so that point is totally irrelevant.
And finally can you please answer why any man who gives his time to hurl for his county and give his all is as you call a "waster". Do you hurl at all? Please tell this is a WUM.
rebelrebel30
(8,531 Posts)
Posted:
20-Jun-2012 23:35
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Originally posted by seanie:
CORRECT 100%, the reality is cork have failed miserably to understand or attempt to come to terms with modern hurling. JBM has a huge job, however his greyhounds over elephants theory was blown out of the water vs kk, and apparently it was shown up again in the recent challenge vs dublin. I would expect tipp to simply have too mcuh physically and a far stronger bench when required. Niall mac a huge loss for cork as I feel he could possibly have broken even with maher.
Corks forwards in particular simply dont have the work rate required for this level.
2 Questions seanie, 1) the only team to give Cork the going over since JBM took over is Kilkenny and they have done that to everyone else and 2) i dont understand the point your making re the challenge match with the dubs?, if Cork were physically not at he races how did Dwyer get an injury and cork win it?, By all accounts it was a fairly feisty affair and cork won.
BTW, just in case your thinking of coming back with something, i dont read a whole lot into challenge matches, thats essentially what they are to teams.
rebelrebel30
(8,531 Posts)
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20-Jun-2012 23:41
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Originally posted by lovelyriver:
Could be some truth in that but with this caveat, that Cork team had Cusack, the two OConnors, Kenny & Curran. Cussen was only a sub v Tipp, certainly Aisake wouldnt be as good as lads on the present team...but the 5 above? Cork have seven of that team, N Mac inj maybe?, and two of the subs for selection. Interestingly Tipp have 13 of their team available plus 3 of the subs
Id disagree and ill tell you why, Kenny and Curran handnt played well for cork since the tail end of the All ireland winning years. The Kenny, curran of 2010 werent the players they were in 2005,06. Had lost a yard of pace, burnout, fatigue etc. JBM is giving the head to lads who are on the cusp of their careers and are hungry. Its early days of course and all im looking for is progress. I said it at teh start of the year, Tipp and Kilkenny are well ahead of the rest, but Cork most certainly are in that group.
DW had no idea of what type of game he wanted Cork to play, With Jimmy you can at leaset see some method in what hes about. Quick fast ball into the forward, Ok it came unstuck v Kilkenny but you can learn from that. Under DW it was tippy tappy, fellas not really sure of the system he wanted to play. Also his man management skills apparently were awful from people i have talked too, decision making skills were very poor.
johnny cash
(737 Posts)
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20-Jun-2012 23:45
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a lot of talk on the PROC site that JBM isnt going to start Sean Og and is going to go with youth such as a rookie called Christopher Joyce at wing back and Darren Sweetnam at midfield. Also talk that if JBM doesnt go with Joyce he mite put Damien Cahalane or Conor O'Sullivan in the corner and push Shane O'Neill out to wing back. He should start with Sweetnam in my opinion.
JBM was pretty fearless youth its head in 1999. Still the experience of Sean Og or John Gardiner could be significant Sunday as well. team selection here is very interesting
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