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Topic: Referees ?
carryharry (4,804 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 10:49	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
carryharry (4,804 Posts)	Im wondering, Intercounty Referees have assessor's watching them at most Intercounty games. But what is the assessment critera for club referees? In general i side with referees on most issues as their job is a thankless one but there are some in the job who are not fit for the purpose. Is it a case that once you become a Ref that you carry on for as long as you want or can they be hauled up for less than satisfactory refereeing? I don't want this question to turn into a slanging match on particular referees so can we keep to topic please.
Carry on Hurling (513 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 11:32	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Carry on Hurling (513 Posts)	It's a county by county basis, in that the referees committee are supposed to arrange for it, but it's only a recommendation more than anything else. Even then it only serves to advise a ref on where they need to improve. Bad refs will continue to be used while there is a shortage. I only started refereeing due to the ineptitude of a particular ref we always seemed to get for championship games.
inbetweeners (413 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 13:06	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
inbetweeners (413 Posts)	Well the assesor for Rory Hickey did a great job. Because he wasn't seen for a year after his shambolic effort in 2009 Munster Final. Padraic Hughers assesor makes me angry.
Hitch (3,644 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 13:16	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Hitch (3,644 Posts)	Who in their sane senses would be a referee? I heard of a fella who is a GAA ref and in his day job he's a traffic warden!
Young Hopper (327 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 14:03	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Young Hopper (327 Posts)	Originally posted by Hitch: Who in their sane senses would be a referee?I heard of a fella who is a GAA ref and in his day job he's a traffic warden! He sounds like a right......., no, I better not!
Carry on Hurling (513 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 14:57	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Carry on Hurling (513 Posts)	I'm not sure how a person's day job relates to them being a referee, I know solicitors, doctors, gardai, farmers, company directors and general labourers that are referees, equal opportunities "employer" by all accounts... Going back to the main point, any assessments that are done on club referees are a box ticking exercise, but they do help some referees that want to improve. As for the rest of ya, ya know f-all about refereeing unless you've done it yourselves, same applies to SG analysts.
Barry (492 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 15:03	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Barry (492 Posts)	It is a thankless task alright. Even to referee an U-8 match requires nerves of steel! Often the Board have no choice but to get an ageing clueless ref in 'cos there's no one else available.
glasandbán (2,046 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 15:03	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
glasandbán (2,046 Posts)	Originally posted by Young Hopper: He sounds like a right......., no, I better not! Top top bloke?
carryharry (4,804 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 16:18	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
carryharry (4,804 Posts)	Originally posted by Carry on Hurling: I'm not sure how a person's day job relates to them being a referee, I know solicitors, doctors, gardai, farmers, company directors and general labourers that are referees, equal opportunities "employer" by all accounts...Going back to the main point, any assessments that are done on club referees are a box ticking exercise, but they do help some referees that want to improve.As for the rest of ya, ya know f-all about refereeing unless you've done it yourselves, same applies to SG analysts. Agreed COH. A persons job has no bearing on their ability to Referee. It's a thankless job with few benifits really, i have never referee'd a game but i do a fair share of umpiring with a young Ref. The abuse he gets is scandalous at times and is usually at its highest at underage games for lunatic parents. He does make some decisions that make me cringe from time to time but even when he goes well imo he still gets abuse. A no win situation. But, there are some lads in their later years still at it around my area. Keeping up with games is an issue and they tend to make decisions based on how loud the sidelines shout at them which is poor. I know numbers taking up the job are poor but the GAA need to look a giving some kind of benifits to young referee's to take up the role. Look at retired players, give them family tickets for all County games etc. Do something to get new blood in basically.
Hitch (3,644 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 16:22	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Hitch (3,644 Posts)	GAA referees wanted. Wicklow area. No experience necessary. Must able to fit in boot of Opel Astra!
Carry on Hurling (513 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 16:36	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Carry on Hurling (513 Posts)	Originally posted by Hitch: GAA referees wanted. Wicklow area. No experience necessary. Must able to fit in boot of Opel Astra! Would it kill you to try and add value to a tread?
carryharry (4,804 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 16:43	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
carryharry (4,804 Posts)	Originally posted by Hitch: GAA referees wanted. Wicklow area. No experience necessary. Must able to fit in boot of Opel Astra! Sorry COH, but that made me spit out my coffee! Yet again Hitch, take a bow ya divil!
dualplayer (18 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 16:50	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dualplayer (18 Posts)	There are a few myths out there being repeated here that need debunking. Firstly it's not a thankless job, depending on county & level attained refs make €40 to €50 per match.For matches outside own county mileage and meal allowances are included. Many refs will do between 80 & 100 games a year so the sums add up. For those of flexible or no employment school/college games are quite plentiful during the club off season - autumn/winter. These games carry little pressure/abuse with cash paid on the day. The problem as i see it is with the lack of a clear promotion/relegation system involving proper assessment and fitness tests. Lads can spend 20 years trying to get to the top even at club level and are very slow then to walk away.
Habanerocat (2,252 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 16:58	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Habanerocat (2,252 Posts)	Originally posted by Hitch: Who in their sane senses would be a referee?I heard of a fella who is a GAA ref and in his day job he's a traffic warden! I know him. He gave his own brother a ticket one day. Clare man. Is it the same fellow we're talking about?
Carry on Hurling (513 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 17:04	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Carry on Hurling (513 Posts)	Originally posted by dualplayer: There are a few myths out there being repeated here that need debunking. Firstly it's not a thankless job, depending on county & level attained refs make €40 to €50 per match.For matches outside own county mileage and meal allowances are included. Many refs will do between 80 & 100 games a year so the sums add up. For those of flexible or no employment school/college games are quite plentiful during the club off season - autumn/winter. These games carry little pressure/abuse with cash paid on the day.The problem as i see it is with the lack of a clear promotion/relegation system involving proper assessment and fitness tests. Lads can spend 20 years trying to get to the top even at club level and are very slow then to walk away. That is true for a tiny, tiny percentage of refs. In my county, a ref on his own gets “expenses” of €30 for a game. The travel expenses incurred alone are in and around that for most games. Trying to get umpires, plus the training to keep some sort of fitness, and the time away from the family on weekends and in the evening, mean that most are compensated not nearly enough. You may ask why would you do it, well keeping up the fitness, staying involved with the club, contributing back to the organization and trying to do a good job in the interests of fairness are all on the plus side. It is most certainly not for the money…. As far as relegation and promotion is concerned, no new ref will be brought out of club level, unless they are under 22-23 I think. They are starting this now due to an over subscription to inter-county, so they have those numbers for the next couple of years, and all the new blood to come through in the next 5 years will be young lads that are coming out of the underage structures. Apparently at IC level in the future they want experienced guys in their late twenties with a similar levels of fitness to the IC players.
carryharry (4,804 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 17:07	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
carryharry (4,804 Posts)	As far as relegation and promotion is concerned, no new ref will be brought out of club level, unless they are under 22-23 I think. They are starting this now due to an over subscription to inter-county, so they have those numbers for the next couple of years, and all the new blood to come through in the next 5 years will be young lads that are coming out of the underage structures. Apparently at IC level in the future they want experienced guys in their late twenties with a similar levels of fitness to the IC players. Delighted to hear that COH, at least there is some forward thinking on the issue within the ranks.
roadrunner (911 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 18:03	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
roadrunner (911 Posts)	Originally posted by carryharry: As far as relegation and promotion is concerned, no new ref will be brought out of club level, unless they are under 22-23 I think. They are starting this now due to an over subscription to inter-county, so they have those numbers for the next couple of years, and all the new blood to come through in the next 5 years will be young lads that are coming out of the underage structures. Apparently at IC level in the future they want experienced guys in their late twenties with a similar levels of fitness to the IC players. Delighted to hear that COH, at least there is some forward thinking on the issue within the ranks. i do not know what county u in . but where i live 3 recruitment drives in the last 3 years got 60 people to do foundation cource most of these maybe half under 25. when it came to games most of them away in college or playing themself and where not available to do juvenile games does that were walked away because of abuse so out of 60 only 5/6 still active which is only 10% . i agree trying to get younger people involved but unless u have no playing involvement and willing to take abuse and make hard calls it is a hard and isolated place to be. as regards assesment club referees have a mandatory yearly physical and wrtitten test on the rules. as regards assesment on club referees on games they do this does not generally happen as it is very difficult to get assesors. because to be an assesor like a driving instructor u have to do a written test on the rules and have to to achieve at least 90% . no point assessing if you dont know up to date rules yourself, who is going to do all that to be an assessor ? for what reward maybe free pass to games.
rebelrebel30 (8,531 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 18:07	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
rebelrebel30 (8,531 Posts)	Originally posted by inbetweeners: Well the assesor for Rory Hickey did a great job. Because he wasn't seen for a year after his shambolic effort in 2009 Munster Final.Padraic Hughers assesor makes me angry. I presume Michael Waddings and Barry Kellys asessors are permenantly on sick leave..just a thought.
kavvie (289 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 18:40	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
kavvie (289 Posts)	who ever ascessed michael duff last week must have given him top marks..hes out again sunday!!one of the worse reffing performances i ever seen.and i seen a few bad ones!!
dualplayer (18 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 22:57	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dualplayer (18 Posts)	it is a hard and isolated place to be. as regards assesment club referees have a mandatory yearly physical and wrtitten test on the rules. Not sure what county this is in but very few counties have mandatory fitness tests, those that tried were quickly rebuked with lads threatening to withdraw services. The so called written test is done in a group with attendance guaranteeing a pass. Once again i'll say it the rewards are there or why would so many fellas stay at it plodding away in the lower reaches with no interest in keeping fit or learning about the latest rule changes. Most matches pass without incident and players shake hands with the ref while debating one or two decisions. I'm glad to here that young lads are being promoted but this needs to happen more at local level with the older more experienced guys doing the tougher junior games where fitness is less of a priority.
South Limerick Referee (16,613 Posts)	Posted: 29-Jun-2012 23:16	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
South Limerick Referee (16,613 Posts)	I was discussing refereeing with an Intercounty Referee the other morning. I quote "Refereeing is the most ultra-competitive blood sport that there is around. Basically any Referee is an individual. Individuals have buddies, and buddies back each other up. There are a small number of big games and everyone competes for the prize. Referees are capable of anything from stabbing one another in the back to licking up to administrators etc. You would be surprised at the behaviour and mentality of some of the referees on Intercounty panels. Assessing at Intercounty level is relatively neutral because the assessor is relatively independent. I wouldnt agree that it works though, the fiddle faddle thing costs them percentage points and therefore the emerging referee feels he cannot let the game flow. Pat McEneaney did his own thing and got the big games much to the discontent of emerging referees who ticked all the boxes they were told to tick. McEneaney outgrew himself in the end but he was a good one in his day. The referees who ticked the boxes will always tick boxes but they will never be a Pat McEneaney at his peak. Anyhow to get back to the point at club level, assessing wouldnt work, everyone knows each other too well. Assessors would wear tired of the constant licking up to them, and would also wear tired of being Public Enemy number 1 on their own doorstep for producing truthful assessments. The only way it would work in terms of true independence is to bring in assessors from another province to assess club games, and that becomes a gravy train in itself. Originally posted by carryharry: Im wondering, Intercounty Referees have assessor's watching them at most Intercounty games. But what is the assessment critera for club referees?In general i side with referees on most issues as their job is a thankless one but there are some in the job who are not fit for the purpose. Is it a case that once you become a Ref that you carry on for as long as you want or can they be hauled up for less than satisfactory refereeing?I don't want this question to turn into a slanging match on particular referees so can we keep to topic please.

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