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Topic: Dubs play Croker all the time!
Anyone but FF (1,490 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 00:26	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Anyone but FF (1,490 Posts)	As some of ye are aware their is a small debate in the media about Dublins "unfair" advantage of playing all their football games in Croke Park. In fact I read there earlier that something like 12 of Dublins first 15 have never experienced a championship game outside of Croker, so whats the verdict on AFR over this situation? Id have no objections with the Dubs playing in Croker all the time but I suppose it is a small bit unfair on other Leinster teams in the earlier rounds that the Dubs have "home" advantage. I suppose it would be a great boost for local economies if the Dubs had to travel to oppostion venues for some early championship games and it would create massive athmospheres in those venues. So what do other lads think?
Dickie Rock (3 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 00:31	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Dickie Rock (3 Posts)	As a Dublin supporter, I and many of my fellow fans would love a few Championship games down the country. I'm sure the local business's would also love to see the games being moved around. However nowadays its all about raising money. Unlikely to happen.
Anyone but FF (1,490 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 00:32	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Anyone but FF (1,490 Posts)	Time for Dublin to leave Croker comfort zone By Brendan O’Brien Friday, June 29, 2012 How could it be that a former Footballer of the Year doesn’t know what it is to bus it into enemy territory on a big match day? Here’s a thought: Bernard Brogan has never played a championship match outside of Croke Park. Think about that. Twenty All-Ireland appearances in six years for Dublin and all of them on the same patch of grass. An exclusive piece of real estate, no doubt about it, but does that not strike you as inherently wrong? And sad, in a way, too? One of his generation’s finest talents and he has never been seen on the days that matter most outside of Dublin 3. Elvis Presley, famously, never performed outside of North America — much to the regret of his fans worldwide — but there’s no Colonel Tom Parker holding Brogan & Co. back, just a complicity of silence that continues to accept a ludicrous situation for what it is. Brogan’s not alone. A dozen of the team named by Pat Gilroy for this weekend’s Leinster semi-final against Wexford have yet to spend a summer Sunday navigating a path through a championship fixture outside the Pale. The odd men out, for the record, are Stephen Cluxton, Bryan Cullen and Alan Brogan. The inequality of it all is heightened by the most arbitrary of inspections into Leinster’s 10 other competing football counties over, say, the last five provincial campaigns in which Dublin have played all 15 of their games along Jones’ Road. In that same time, six of their competitors have not played as much as one Leinster championship game in their own county ground. Only three experienced an ‘away’ fixture, trips to HQ aside, while Westmeath were somehow landed with four. Six counties played in Dr Cullen Park, but not Carlow, and the second-most frequented venue was O’Moore Park in Portlaoise although Laois played in front of their own supporters there just once between 2007 and 2011. That is not a championship, it’s a lottery. Players will tell you there’s nowhere they would rather perform than Croke Park but how could it be that a former Footballer of the Year doesn’t know what it is to bus it into enemy territory on a big match day when every step is fraught with unfamiliarity? Sports people are slaves to rituals and no doubt Brogan and the rest of his Dublin teammates know theirs off to a tee by now. Every inch of Croke Park — every sight, smell and sound — reinforces certainties and calms nerves on match days. New surroundings demand new questions. Adaptation. Change. Where to sit in the dressing room. How to get to the pitch for the warm-up. What studs to wear. How to judge the wind gusting in over those low terraces. Small factors all but they combine for a bigger picture, one which Wexford’s Aindreas Doyle addressed this week when he commented on the inherent unfairness of Dublin’s attachment to a ground and one which has only strengthened in recent years. Dublin have played nine All-Ireland qualifiers since the back door was introduced in 2002 and you’ll never guess where they have played the majority of them. Hmmm. Five in Croker, another one next door in Parnell Park and only three in the provinces. Add in their tenancy at HQ for home Allianz League games this past two years and it is hardly any wonder that Doyle felt the need to raise an issue which would not be countenanced in any other sport or, for that matter, any other county. Money is the obvious glue keeping the cosy relationship together. The Dubs are big business — the GAA’s biggest and everyone realises that it makes sense from a financial point of view to have them perform where most bums can be paired with seats. It may inflate the coffers but it sucks colour and drama from the championships. Parity too. Wexford have threatened Dublin in the recent past but the closest they came to taking their scalp was arguably in 2002 when a last-gasp Paddy Christie block prevented a goal which would have handed the underdogs a one-point win. The venue? Dr Cullen Park. Three years later and Paul Caffrey’s side were just as relieved to retreat from Longford’s Pearse Park with a two-point buffer 12 months after a 19-point margin had separated them from Luke Dempsey’s side in Croke Park. The memory of Wexford’s players crashing to the turf in 2002 and of Dempsey standing disconsolate and barefoot on the concrete floor of the tunnel in 2005 as he dissected another one that got away still linger. Good days that could have been great. Both were infused with the excitement that only the capital’s travelling hordes bring with them when they make for Connolly or Heuston Stations or the M7. Those excursions shouldn’t occur once in a blue moon. This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Friday, June 29, 2012
dubliner 2 (10,823 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 00:43	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dubliner 2 (10,823 Posts)	Until Dublin are bringing less than 30,000 to matches it would be a spectacular own goal to deny people the chance to see them by playing a game in a venue that can't facilitate all who want to go. Never mind the financial hit. You could all but say the same about KK as well but no one is clamouring for them to be taken to provincial venues. And fcuk all difference it would make anyway.
dickvantastic (134 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 00:48	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dickvantastic (134 Posts)	You cant bate the Cork Examiner boyyyy. In fairness it was a good point well made. Yes money talks in the GAA but a daytrip beyond the pale would make a nice return for the local economy other than Dorset St. and surrounding areas. The fact made in the article that B. Brogan plus 10 more have never played c'ship outside croke park not only denies other counties a home game but it denies fotball fans the oppertunity to see ONE of the best players in Ireland play in front of their crowd. Players will tell you that preparation is key to any game and if your preparation is the exact same every time you must have some advantage. In fairness the article pays alot more justice to that point than I ever could.
theface2010 (3,490 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 01:01	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
theface2010 (3,490 Posts)	Originally posted by dubliner 2: Until Dublin are bringing less than 30,000 to matches it would be a spectacular own goal to deny people the chance to see them by playing a game in a venue that can't facilitate all who want to go. Never mind the financial hit.You could all but say the same about KK as well but no one is clamouring for them to be taken to provincial venues.And fcuk all difference it would make anyway. Are you comparing this Dublin team to the greatest ever team to play hurling? Your point makes no sense anyway-what has been the average attendance for KK matches in the Leinster c'ship? A good bit shy of 82000 i'd guess. I understand why they do it for financial reasons but I would venture that in no other sport in the world does 1 team get to play pretty much every game they play in that sports premier competition at home-it is absolutely ridiculous.
Anyone but FF (1,490 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 01:02	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Anyone but FF (1,490 Posts)	Originally posted by dubliner 2: Until Dublin are bringing less than 30,000 to matches it would be a spectacular own goal to deny people the chance to see them by playing a game in a venue that can't facilitate all who want to go. Never mind the financial hit.You could all but say the same about KK as well but no one is clamouring for them to be taken to provincial venues.And fcuk all difference it would make anyway. But ideally should the GAA be more about bringing the game and the glamour of the Dubs supporters to other communities and not be worrying about the fiancial hit? Surely It wouldnt break the GAA if the Dubs played their first championship game every year away? Out of curiosity what was the attendance at Dublin V Louth this year?
staycalm (1,081 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 10:00	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
staycalm (1,081 Posts)	Originally posted by dubliner 2: Until Dublin are bringing less than 30,000 to matches it would be a spectacular own goal to deny people the chance to see them by playing a game in a venue that can't facilitate all who want to go. Never mind the financial hit.You could all but say the same about KK as well but no one is clamouring for them to be taken to provincial venues.And fcuk all difference it would make anyway. The days of Dublin having 30,000 at the opening round matches are gone. There was 30,000 in Croke park against Louth a few weeks ago and that was a double header so Dublin V Laois as a stand alone fixture would have attracted less than 20,000 if it was taken out of Croke Park. Which would mean it had a lower attendance than 2 of the 3 Munster hurling championship matches played so far
dubliner 2 (10,823 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 10:38	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dubliner 2 (10,823 Posts)	Originally posted by theface2010: Are you comparing this Dublin team to the greatest ever team to play hurling? No I'm not. But they play very few games outside of Croke Park. That's all I'm saying. This message has been edited - 30-jun-2012 @ 10:38
turncoat (489 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 11:56	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
turncoat (489 Posts)	i think it works against dublin.You listen to any footballer worth his salt and he'll say he loves playing in croke parkand especially against the dubs.they all seem to raise their game when they get there.especially kerry. its always big games they play there whereas Dublin have to start a 1st round leinster games there.you look at the performances marquee players have put in against the dubs in croker over the years - Macdonald of mayo, bradley of derry, mulligan of tyrone, o'sullivan of kerry, sweeney of donegal, dolan of westmeath.You could make a stromng argument that a lot of their best individual performances were against dublin in croker. from a leinster gaa point of view, the dubs in croker has helped fund many a clubhouse around the greater leinster area
The Badger (862 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 13:23	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
The Badger (862 Posts)	Dont see why they cant at least play a Leinster quarter away from Croker. Could the Louth match not of been played in Navan. Wexford begged the Leinster Council to play a QF in Wexford Park a few years ago and fell of deaf ears. In the end the attendance was about 25k i think. Also the Round 4 qualifier they played against Louth in 2010. Why the hell was that in CP seen as round 4 is usually reserved for neutral venues
mads jorgensen (71 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 13:45	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
mads jorgensen (71 Posts)	Originally posted by dubliner 2: No I'm not. But they play very few games outside of Croke Park. That's all I'm saying. The reason Kilkenny play very few games outside Croke Park is because most of the games they play are at the business end of the Championship. This year for instance KK's next outing is the Leinster Final, which an annual fixture in Croker regardless of the counties involved. Should we beat Galway we will then progress to the All-Ireland SF, again at Croker. You know the rest. Last year it was decided to bring the Leinster hurling semi-finals to the provincial venues and KK played away in Wexford, a move which was welcomed by all, KK included. Last week KK played the Dublin hurlers in Portlaoise, which begs the question: Why are the footballers immune from playing at away or even neutral venues? We all know the answer, the debate is about whether revenue should be given priority over sporting equality. I suspect that most people outside of Dublin believe that it shouldn't. I know I do.
ollscoil (2,616 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 14:00	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
ollscoil (2,616 Posts)	There's obviously two sides to this debate and no clear right or wrong answer. However, as turncoat has said, the Dubs in Croke Park generate massive money which filters back down to clubs. I'd be reluctant to support a move away from Croke Park for the Dubs for that alone. In addition, there is no reason why any county in Leinster shouldn't have massive support in Croke Park as it is a fairly short, straight forward trip for many Leinster counties. I'd like to see the Dubs travel a bit more but 5K would make a big difference to my club and if Dublin playing in Croke Park gets us that then I'm happy to leave things as they are.
watchthehop (64 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 14:14	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
watchthehop (64 Posts)	It is a huge advantage for the Dubs fans anyway,jump on a bus and you`re there.The cost of bringing a family to Croker from down the country to championship games is huge-tickets,fuel,tolls,food.In the current economic climate when you are counting every cent it is hard to justify spending so much just to watch 70 minutes of football.It would make it a lot easier to explain to the wife why it is so much better to watch the game live than on telly if some other counties got to play a home game every once in a while.Having said that there is something special about the journey up full of confidence and the inquest into what went wrong on the way home with the young fella asking you why such and such a fella is no longer our favourite player.
Anyone but FF (1,490 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 14:24	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Anyone but FF (1,490 Posts)	For arguments sake say the Dubs lose tomorrow and draw Kerry or Limerick or any other county with a large stadium in the next round, would that game be played in Croker or would it be decided by who is drawn out first?
ollscoil (2,616 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 16:03	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
ollscoil (2,616 Posts)	I think it would be like previous draws this year and a separate draw would be made to designate a 'home' county.
Fr Murphys Ghost (967 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 16:55	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Fr Murphys Ghost (967 Posts)	Of course its a huge advantage for the Dubs, and would you see it in any other sport. Imagine London having a combined Soccer team to play against the rest of the teams with the biggest population to choose from and the on top of that playing all their games at Wembley! Its easy for Dublin to bring massive crowds to home games, game starts at 4, head down the bottom of the road to get your bus around 3 and then home around half 6 or 7. Compare it to Portlaoise last week, how man true Gaels from Dublin travelled to see their hurlers play outside the pale, f-all did. As for this crack, sure Dublin isnt that far away, every county should be bringing huge crowds, start totting up the price for a family of 4, tickets, fuel, food combined with 4 or maybe 5 hrs travelling to and from Croker. Compared it to the price and time spend for a family from Dublin. Big difference.
Kobe Shefflin (265 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 17:23	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Kobe Shefflin (265 Posts)	Originally posted by Anyone but FF: For arguments sake say the Dubs lose tomorrow and draw Kerry or Limerick or any other county with a large stadium in the next round, would that game be played in Croker or would it be decided by who is drawn out first? Whoever loses won't be able to draw Kerry or Limerick as all losing provincial semi-finalists are seeded. A losing semi-finalist will be drawn against a winner of the first round qualifiers. I understand what you mean though, but the only possible team they could face with a big stadium would be Tipp I'd imagine, or also Laois. But it won't matter, all signs lead to Croker!!!
Boston Bruin (131 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 20:12	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Boston Bruin (131 Posts)	Dubs playing every game at home is a bit of a joke alright and maybe should be in the silly and amateurish things in the GAA thread a few days ago. While finance is obviously important , the integrity of the sport should be a higher priority. If tomorrow's game was in Wexford pk I'd give wexford about 25% better chance of winning. and if finance is so important why not play some Leinster champ games in Thurles? The games don't have to be in the province do they? Particularly since we have Galway and Antrim playing in the Leinster hurling championship.
ollscoil (2,616 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 20:21	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
ollscoil (2,616 Posts)	Originally posted by Fr Murphys Ghost: Of course its a huge advantage for the Dubs, and would you see it in any other sport. Imagine London having a combined Soccer team to play against the rest of the teams with the biggest population to choose from and the on top of that playing all their games at Wembley!Its easy for Dublin to bring massive crowds to home games, game starts at 4, head down the bottom of the road to get your bus around 3 and then home around half 6 or 7. Compare it to Portlaoise last week, how man true Gaels from Dublin travelled to see their hurlers play outside the pale, f-all did.As for this crack, sure Dublin isnt that far away, every county should be bringing huge crowds, start totting up the price for a family of 4, tickets, fuel, food combined with 4 or maybe 5 hrs travelling to and from Croker. Compared it to the price and time spend for a family from Dublin. Big difference. Nonsense, has every Wexford man 4 kids and an inability to make a sandwhich? Youo'd get sick of hearing about ticket prices and fuel etc., of course it's an issue but I'd bet good money that if the game was in Wexford there'd be a good few more Dubs travelling to Wexford than there will be Wexford fans to Dublin. In truth Wexford GAA supporters have be an embarrassment to Wexford football. This message has been edited - 30-jun-2012 @ 20:33
Fr Murphys Ghost (967 Posts)	Posted: 30-Jun-2012 20:40	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Fr Murphys Ghost (967 Posts)	Originally posted by ollscoil: Nonsense, has every Wexford man 4 kids and an inability to make a sandwhich? Youo'd get sick of hearing about ticket prices and fuel etc., of course it's an issue but I'd bet good money that if the game was in Wexford there'd be a good few more Dubs travelling to Wexford than there will be Wexford fans to Dublin. In truth Wexford GAA supporters have be an embarrassment to Wexford football. Your probably right, hell ye might even get more Dubs fans than travelled to see their hurlers last week in Port Loaise. How many travelled again last saturday. Would the Dublin GAA supporters be an embarrasment to Dublin hurling by any chance!
Anyone but FF (1,490 Posts)	Posted: 01-Jul-2012 22:42	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Anyone but FF (1,490 Posts)	Well was Croker worth 4 points to the Dubs today?
ProjX (726 Posts)	Posted: 01-Jul-2012 22:46	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
ProjX (726 Posts)	Originally posted by ollscoil: Nonsense, has every Wexford man 4 kids and an inability to make a sandwhich? Youo'd get sick of hearing about ticket prices and fuel etc., of course it's an issue but I'd bet good money that if the game was in Wexford there'd be a good few more Dubs travelling to Wexford than there will be Wexford fans to Dublin. In truth Wexford GAA supporters have be an embarrassment to Wexford football. And why can the Dubs not make sandwiches and Tavel to Wexford park for a change? What's sauce for the goose and all that....
dubliner 2 (10,823 Posts)	Posted: 01-Jul-2012 22:54	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dubliner 2 (10,823 Posts)	Originally posted by Anyone but FF: Well was Croker worth 4 points to the Dubs today? The more pertinent question is would Ben Brosnan find the posts better in Wexford Park. It' as simple as this. If Wexford, or any other county has notions of winning Leinster or All Ireland finals they need to be able to play in Croke Park. If Wexford has won today their experience of playing Dublin there the last couple of years would have been an enormous benefit going in to play a Meath team that plays there fairly regularly. They has the game handed to them on a plate. Dublin literally could have done no more bar lying down flat to let them win. And they didn't. Pitch be damned I'd say if I were a Wexford man. This message has been edited - 01-jul-2012 @ 22:55
ProjX (726 Posts)	Posted: 01-Jul-2012 23:05	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
ProjX (726 Posts)	Originally posted by dubliner 2: The more pertinent question is would Ben Brosnan find the posts better in Wexford Park.It' as simple as this. If Wexford, or any other county has notions of winning Leinster or All Ireland finals they need to be able to play in Croke Park. If Wexford has won today their experience of playing Dublin there the last couple of years would have been an enormous benefit going in to play a Meath team that plays there fairly regularly.They has the game handed to them on a plate. Dublin literally could have done no more bar lying down flat to let them win.And they didn't.Pitch be damned I'd say if I were a Wexford man. D2, by your logic there, all inter county games in both codes should be played in Croke Park. Face it, the GAA has bent over backwards to accommodate the Dublin fans and assist the Dubs to be successful. All that is being said here is that there are other counties whose fans the GAA should assist.

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