An Fear Rua - Willie Hyland: 'I won't be there in October unless the scene is changed'

Blanco

(7,909 Posts)

Posted: 01-Jul-2012 11:26

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Very honest Article here from a Top hurler, although he likes and respects Teddy McCarthy as a man and what he has achieved , he does not really give him a vote of confidence as a coach at the top level.

Willie Hyland: 'I won't be there in October unless the scene is changed'

Laois' star hurler Willie Hyland is fed up the poor structure in the county, as he tells Damian Lawlor in today's 'Sunday Independent'.

TWO years ago, after they were beaten by Carlow in the qualifiers, Laois hurling captain Brian Campion stood up to address his players.

That defeat signalled the end of manager Niall Rigney's promising reign and, as his eyes welled up, Campion pleaded with the team not to be disheartened, adding that it was only a pothole that they had to pick themselves out of. They left Dr Cullen Park downhearted but still hopeful that brighter days lay ahead.

They couldn't have been more mistaken.

After Antrim beat them in the 2011 championship, they drew Cork in Portlaoise, shipped 10 goals and slumped to a 34-point defeat. New manager Brendan Fennelly didn't spare the players and they didn't save him either. Fennelly moved on shortly afterwards.

Teddy McCarthy came in this year and although they were relegated to Division 2, some pride was restored when they recorded a handsome defeat of Carlow in the Leinster championship. But that was a small air vent in a season that would suffocate them -- they were mercilessly whipped by 22 points by Dublin in the Leinster quarter-final and then hammered 6-22 to 1-11 by Limerick in the qualifiers last week.

Of that 1-11, Willie Hyland, their captain and talisman, scored 1-10. The Clough-Ballacolla man is one of the few chinks of light in another dark year for the county. He picked up the player of the month award for May and is the current highest scorer in the 2012 championship with 1-26 from three games. But he's had enough. Only 23, Hyland says he can't face another year like this.

"The players have been lambasted for years but no Laois hurler ever stood up and said what's going on. I'm not here to talk about myself -- this is about Laois hurling and the depression we feel, the whole scene is beating us down.

"If speaking out improves the set-up in any way, I'll do it. I held my thunder during the year but the truth is we need a complete restructure behind the scenes and for the senior team. We need a modern-day coach because we are just miles behind. I've been marking Stephen Hiney for almost seven years -- and we've had good battles -- but I couldn't believe the condition he was in a few weeks ago. It was like being hit by a bulldozer. Most of us train five or six nights a week but we're light years behind."

Does this mean he won't back Teddy McCarthy to stay on for another year?

"I have unreal time for Teddy as a person. This is not his fault, he's just the latest man in there, but I won't be there in October unless the whole scene is changed. I actually feel sorry for Teddy being in this job after what he's achieved in the game. He has achieved more than anyone in Laois but we're going out getting hidings with no real plan.

"Teddy made a stab at getting our best players out but much more must be done. He needs greater support from the board and clubs in that regard. We're lining out without guys of serious quality. They will only come on board if a figurehead like Jamesie O'Connor, a top-class coach with St Flannan's, or someone like Liam Sheedy, someone in touch with modern methods, arrived. Fellas are staying away and won't ever bother togging out if they see no potential.

"That Limerick defeat was the final straw but I haven't enjoyed hurling with Laois for the past two years. All those beatings we've shipped are bloody embarrassing. We've spiralled downwards since Niall Rigney stepped down and nothing's been done about it. Niall had every player in the county togged out and we were going somewhere -- we pushed Limerick to three points in the 2009 qualifiers. In hindsight, we didn't appreciate him half enough.

"Players like Cahir Healy, Zane Keenan, Eoin Browne, Joe Phelan, Shane Dollard and Shane Phelan are missing, as are other club hurlers good enough for Laois who won't bother because they see no hope."

Hyland sees little point, therefore, in blaming McCarthy for their situation.

"We have to look at some of the players, including those who won't tog. The sad thing about our dressing room after the Limerick match is that some lads were nearly relieved the whole thing was over. Lads knew there would be a fall-off after losing to Dublin and there was. Negativity seeped in and fellas wanted the whole thing to end. We lost three players in the run-up to the Limerick match.

"But there's a core group of lads who would bend over backwards for Laois hurling, guys who train six nights a week for the cause.

"The likes of Tommy Fitzgerald are hugely respected. He lives in Portlaoise where he is surrounded by football -- he was called up by at least two Laois football managers and he could be playing in Croke Park on the big day. But he's a hurling man and he's stuck with us. Mick McEvoy is another servant. Ninety-nine per cent of our lads are genuine but the arse is falling out of it now -- there are only so many hidings we can take. I'm sick of shaking hands with opponents after games, almost apologising for our displays."

Three weeks before they played Carlow in the championship, Hyland requested a hurling coach to improve their stick-work. He looked for Br Philip Ryan who had previously worked with them during Rigney's tenure. Br Ryan recently left the Waterford set-up and the Laois players wanted him.

"He's the best coach I worked under," Hyland remarks. "A genius. We wanted him in full-time but he only got to take two sessions -- I don't know why."

Hyland made that request at an army training camp in Kilworth where he got chatting to an organiser with a background in sports psychology.

"I wanted his opinion," Hyland adds. "So I asked, 'if you were 12 and started playing with a team and you took beating after beating all the way up, what impact would it have?' I asked what I should do. He said he would probably change his sport.

"All those beatings have a serious effect on me," Hyland continues. "I get fierce down after games and wonder is it all worth it? I remember as a ten-year-old crying at the 1998 Leinster championship match when Ken O'Shea from Kilkenny got a late goal to beat us. Growing up, my heroes were David Cuddy and Niall Rigney, I didn't have to look to any other county. But who do Laois youngsters have to look up to now? No one. They look across the border to Henry Shefflin or Tommy Walsh. We're fast on our way to the Christy Ring Cup and if that happens we'll struggle to field a team at all."

So what exactly needs to change? "As I said, the board need to show vision and leadership and appoint a high-profile, modern manager similar to Anthony Daly or Davy Fitzgerald who will make it attractive to play for the county. Realistically, would Conal Keaney, Ryan O'Dwyer or Dotsy O'Callaghan be hurling for Dublin only for Daly? I don't think so.

"We need the real genuine Laois hurling people to grab the bull by the horns and make sure that happens. I have little faith in the people who are there at present picking the next Laois manager and this is where the change has to start."

Attracting such quality managers to counties like Clare and Dublin is one thing, but they'll hardly be queuing down the N7 to take Laois.

"No, but you must start from somewhere," Hyland insists.

"We are in crisis but we must still look for the best. I was at loggerheads with the county board this year, looking for proper O'Neills sliotars to train with. We were given balls you wouldn't give to your dog at home. We did manage to get the O'Neills balls for a few weeks but eventually the others came back. Basic issues. We also had problems with training facilities and gear.

"The county board lads do their best, they work hard and it's easy to blame them but I have had my difficulties with them.

"I always remember my first year senior in 2007 when we were beaten by Wicklow. That was an all-time low for us. You could hear a pin drop on the bus home except for one board member who I heard laughing during the journey home. I just asked myself if that fella really had a passion for Laois hurling.

"Until more die-hard hurling men get involved in overseeing the set-up we're at nothing. If club men want to do something about it, they'd better act quickly because we're on our knees. I can easily walk off now and give no reasons for doing so, but I'm speaking so that changes can be made and that we can start afresh in October. There is a serious amount of work to be done."

The Laois board will point out that the minors performed well this season, the under 21s are in the provincial final and they'll glance back to the 'Hurling for Laois' plan that current president Liam O'Neill formulated as signs of progress.

As far back as 2006, Development Squads were set-up and current senior and under 21 players Neil Foyle and Stephen Maher are graduates of that system.

Meanwhile, Pat Critchley has been working hard with the Setanta programme which develops 12--14-year-olds. There is a similar programme for 15- and 16-year-olds named the Cuchulainn project.

Last winter, they introduced Paudie Butler as a master hurling coach and before that, in July, they held a forum to discuss how to progress hurling in the county.

"I went into that forum and listened to lads for five minutes before I went away," Hyland continues. "I felt they were talking about referees, nothing to do with the issues that matter at all. I'm not big into these three-to-five-year plans anyway, they look lovely on paper and give the impression that things are structured but sure look at us. In fairness to Pat Critchley, he's a Laois legend and doing unreal work at that level.

Everyone respects him but at senior level we need a couple of key appointments. Someone to get us conditioned right, get the best backroom team possible, put our top players back out on the field. Someone to unite everyone -- players, selectors, backroom and board members. We need to respect the jersey again, because there's little respect for it now.

"We could at least get back competitive again. Can we put something in place whereby we give ourselves the best possible chance? The players have proven that they are willing to help raise funds -- we held two Fight Nights in the past two years -- we can do that again. How can we stop the hammerings? We need help. We should be aiming to match the Offalys, Dublins and Wexfords of this world.

"It's time for everyone to stop posturing. We're at an all-time low."

Hyland emphatically ruled out seeking a transfer to another county, stating that while he is totally disillusioned with Laois he would never countenance leaving Clough-Ballacolla where he has been involved with the under 12s, 16s and 21s over the past three years. "My club is everything to me.''

His club contribution, however, will be of little comfort to county hurling supporters if their best player doesn't feature again.

-
independent.ie

This message has been edited - 01-jul-2012 @ 19:56

Harry Styles

(67 Posts)

Posted: 01-Jul-2012 12:20

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Is he still going to college in LIT? If he is, could he transfer to Limerick? Good hurler, has all the skills and was scoring points against Limerick from all angles. If he did come to Limerick I feel he could get his place in the half forward line! What do ye think?

pegasusIII

(4,075 Posts)

Posted: 01-Jul-2012 12:36

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Originally posted by Blanco:
Very honest Article here from a Top hurler, although he likes and respects Teddy McCarthy as a man and what he has achieved , he does not really give him a vote of confidence as a coach at the top level.Willie Hyland: 'I won't be there in October unless the scene is changed'Laois' star hurler Willie Hyland is fed up the poor structure in the county, as he tells Damian LawlorTWO years ago, after they were beaten by Carlow in the qualifiers, Laois hurling captain Brian Campion stood up to address his players.That defeat signalled the end of manager Niall Rigney's promising reign and, as his eyes welled up, Campion pleaded with the team not to be disheartened, adding that it was only a pothole that they had to pick themselves out of. They left Dr Cullen Park downhearted but still hopeful that brighter days lay ahead.They couldn't have been more mistaken.After Antrim beat them in the 2011 championship, they drew Cork in Portlaoise, shipped 10 goals and slumped to a 34-point defeat. New manager Brendan Fennelly didn't spare the players and they didn't save him either. Fennelly moved on shortly afterwards.Teddy McCarthy came in this year and although they were relegated to Division 2, some pride was restored when they recorded a handsome defeat of Carlow in the Leinster championship. But that was a small air vent in a season that would suffocate them -- they were mercilessly whipped by 22 points by Dublin in the Leinster quarter-final and then hammered 6-22 to 1-11 by Limerick in the qualifiers last week.Of that 1-11, Willie Hyland, their captain and talisman, scored 1-10. The Clough-Ballacolla man is one of the few chinks of light in another dark year for the county. He picked up the player of the month award for May and is the current highest scorer in the 2012 championship with 1-26 from three games. But he's had enough. Only 23, Hyland says he can't face another year like this."The players have been lambasted for years but no Laois hurler ever stood up and said what's going on. I'm not here to talk about myself -- this is about Laois hurling and the depression we feel, the whole scene is beating us down."If speaking out improves the set-up in any way, I'll do it. I held my thunder during the year but the truth is we need a complete restructure behind the scenes and for the senior team. We need a modern-day coach because we are just miles behind. I've been marking Stephen Hiney for almost seven years -- and we've had good battles -- but I couldn't believe the condition he was in a few weeks ago. It was like being hit by a bulldozer. Most of us train five or six nights a week but we're light years behind."Does this mean he won't back Teddy McCarthy to stay on for another year?"I have unreal time for Teddy as a person. This is not his fault, he's just the latest man in there, but I won't be there in October unless the whole scene is changed. I actually feel sorry for Teddy being in this job after what he's achieved in the game. He has achieved more than anyone in Laois but we're going out getting hidings with no real plan."Teddy made a stab at getting our best players out but much more must be done. He needs greater support from the board and clubs in that regard. We're lining out without guys of serious quality. They will only come on board if a figurehead like Jamesie O'Connor, a top-class coach with St Flannan's, or someone like Liam Sheedy, someone in touch with modern methods, arrived. Fellas are staying away and won't ever bother togging out if they see no potential."That Limerick defeat was the final straw but I haven't enjoyed hurling with Laois for the past two years. All those beatings we've shipped are bloody embarrassing. We've spiralled downwards since Niall Rigney stepped down and nothing's been done about it. Niall had every player in the county togged out and we were going somewhere -- we pushed Limerick to three points in the 2009 qualifiers. In hindsight, we didn't appreciate him half enough."Players like Cahir Healy, Zane Keenan, Eoin Browne, Joe Phelan, Shane Dollard and Shane Phelan are missing, as are other club hurlers good enough for Laois who won't bother because they see no hope."Hyland sees little point, therefore, in blaming McCarthy for their situation."We have to look at some of the players, including those who won't tog. The sad thing about our dressing room after the Limerick match is that some lads were nearly relieved the whole thing was over. Lads knew there would be a fall-off after losing to Dublin and there was. Negativity seeped in and fellas wanted the whole thing to end. We lost three players in the run-up to the Limerick match."But there's a core group of lads who would bend over backwards for Laois hurling, guys who train six nights a week for the cause."The likes of Tommy Fitzgerald are hugely respected. He lives in Portlaoise where he is surrounded by football -- he was called up by at least two Laois football managers and he could be playing in Croke Park on the big day. But he's a hurling man and he's stuck with us. Mick McEvoy is another servant. Ninety-nine per cent of our lads are genuine but the arse is falling out of it now -- there are only so many hidings we can take. I'm sick of shaking hands with opponents after games, almost apologising for our displays."Three weeks before they played Carlow in the championship, Hyland requested a hurling coach to improve their stick-work. He looked for Br Philip Ryan who had previously worked with them during Rigney's tenure. Br Ryan recently left the Waterford set-up and the Laois players wanted him."He's the best coach I worked under," Hyland remarks. "A genius. We wanted him in full-time but he only got to take two sessions -- I don't know why."Hyland made that request at an army training camp in Kilworth where he got chatting to an organiser with a background in sports psychology."I wanted his opinion," Hyland adds. "So I asked, 'if you were 12 and started playing with a team and you took beating after beating all the way up, what impact would it have?' I asked what I should do. He said he would probably change his sport."All those beatings have a serious effect on me," Hyland continues. "I get fierce down after games and wonder is it all worth it? I remember as a ten-year-old crying at the 1998 Leinster championship match when Ken O'Shea from Kilkenny got a late goal to beat us. Growing up, my heroes were David Cuddy and Niall Rigney, I didn't have to look to any other county. But who do Laois youngsters have to look up to now? No one. They look across the border to Henry Shefflin or Tommy Walsh. We're fast on our way to the Christy Ring Cup and if that happens we'll struggle to field a team at all."So what exactly needs to change? "As I said, the board need to show vision and leadership and appoint a high-profile, modern manager similar to Anthony Daly or Davy Fitzgerald who will make it attractive to play for the county. Realistically, would Conal Keaney, Ryan O'Dwyer or Dotsy O'Callaghan be hurling for Dublin only for Daly? I don't think so."We need the real genuine Laois hurling people to grab the bull by the horns and make sure that happens. I have little faith in the people who are there at present picking the next Laois manager and this is where the change has to start."Attracting such quality managers to counties like Clare and Dublin is one thing, but they'll hardly be queuing down the N7 to take Laois."No, but you must start from somewhere," Hyland insists."We are in crisis but we must still look for the best. I was at loggerheads with the county board this year, looking for proper O'Neills sliotars to train with. We were given balls you wouldn't give to your dog at home. We did manage to get the O'Neills balls for a few weeks but eventually the others came back. Basic issues. We also had problems with training facilities and gear."The county board lads do their best, they work hard and it's easy to blame them but I have had my difficulties with them."I always remember my first year senior in 2007 when we were beaten by Wicklow. That was an all-time low for us. You could hear a pin drop on the bus home except for one board member who I heard laughing during the journey home. I just asked myself if that fella really had a passion for Laois hurling."Until more die-hard hurling men get involved in overseeing the set-up we're at nothing. If club men want to do something about it, they'd better act quickly because we're on our knees. I can easily walk off now and give no reasons for doing so, but I'm speaking so that changes can be made and that we can start afresh in October. There is a serious amount of work to be done."The Laois board will point out that the minors performed well this season, the under 21s are in the provincial final and they'll glance back to the 'Hurling for Laois' plan that current president Liam O'Neill formulated as signs of progress.As far back as 2006, Development Squads were set-up and current senior and under 21 players Neil Foyle and Stephen Maher are graduates of that system.Meanwhile, Pat Critchley has been working hard with the Setanta programme which develops 12--14-year-olds. There is a similar programme for 15- and 16-year-olds named the Cuchulainn project.Last winter, they introduced Paudie Butler as a master hurling coach and before that, in July, they held a forum to discuss how to progress hurling in the county."I went into that forum and listened to lads for five minutes before I went away," Hyland continues. "I felt they were talking about referees, nothing to do with the issues that matter at all. I'm not big into these three-to-five-year plans anyway, they look lovely on paper and give the impression that things are structured but sure look at us. In fairness to Pat Critchley, he's a Laois legend and doing unreal work at that level.Everyone respects him but at senior level we need a couple of key appointments. Someone to get us conditioned right, get the best backroom team possible, put our top players back out on the field. Someone to unite everyone -- players, selectors, backroom and board members. We need to respect the jersey again, because there's little respect for it now."We could at least get back competitive again. Can we put something in place whereby we give ourselves the best possible chance? The players have proven that they are willing to help raise funds -- we held two Fight Nights in the past two years -- we can do that again. How can we stop the hammerings? We need help. We should be aiming to match the Offalys, Dublins and Wexfords of this world."It's time for everyone to stop posturing. We're at an all-time low."Hyland emphatically ruled out seeking a transfer to another county, stating that while he is totally disillusioned with Laois he would never countenance leaving Clough-Ballacolla where he has been involved with the under 12s, 16s and 21s over the past three years. "My club is everything to me.''His club contribution, however, will be of little comfort to county hurling supporters if their best player doesn't feature again.-
independent.ie

superb piece.
a lot of the analysis in the media about the travails of counties like laois is very skin deep and trivial.

when laois get hammerings at senior level there's a lot if talk like 'they need to do the work at underage' etc. usually the lads who says this have no idea whats going on underage in counties. the biggest problem is committing, truly committing, the best 20ish hurlers in any county to the cause. its been a prennial problem in laois. the point about the difference 'name managers' make is well made.anthony daly is getting some flak at the moment, some of it deserved, but charismatic serious managers such as himself can give counties a real boost.

About a Bicycle

(1,741 Posts)

Posted: 01-Jul-2012 12:52

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Originally posted by Harry Styles:
Is he still going to college in LIT? If he is, could he transfer to Limerick? Good hurler, has all the skills and was scoring points against Limerick from all angles. If he did come to Limerick I feel he could get his place in the half forward line! What do ye think?

Either you are a WUM or a complete idiot. Was the article too long for you? To make it easy for you, re-read the second last paragraph.

I worked in Dublin in the eighties and one of my favourite days of the year was the Leinster semi-finals double bill. Offaly, Laois, Kilkenny and Wexford were the 4 teams that would be in contention and, while Laois never made the breakthrough, they were very competitive and could not be taken lightly. They were tough, skilful hurlers in true Leinster tradition. This article makes for sad reading, on top of the disgrace that happened in Kildare yesterday. Croke Park needs to have a long, hard look at the crisis that is happening in Leinster hurling. Kilkenny are the greatest team of all time, Dublin have improved fantastically after huge commitment and resource for over ten years or more, but those two counties (and I am NOT having a go at them, fair play to them) are masking the terrible falls from grace of Offaly, Laois and to a lesser extent Wexford, and the absence of any real developments in the lesser hurling counties such as Carlow and Meath. This is a very sad article, the man is only 23 and he is crushed already. But he deserves every praise, every possible bit of praise, for speaking out so honestly. Will anyone listen?

An Clár

(253 Posts)

Posted: 01-Jul-2012 13:13

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Fair play to Willie Hyland - proud hurler and Laois man! I have wondered in the past what cost the development of hurling in Dublin will mean. Huge resources have been pumped in and it has paid dividends (my own kids benefit from an excellent GPO, so I am not complaining!). However, what we really need are other counties developing and improving the likes of Meath, Carlow, Laois, Wicklow, Antrim, Kerry etc to a good standard would make the whole competition more enjoyable. Articles like this makes you think that we are further away than ever from having a competitive competition at AI level.

Anyway, good luck to Willie Hyland - I hope he stays with the game - Laois and all hurling supporters need players like him.

carryharry

(4,804 Posts)

Posted: 01-Jul-2012 13:20

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Sad to read that article in fairness.

Willie is the most dedicated club,college and County man you could meet.

If a certain few lads in Laois had a 1/4 of his dedication, Laois hurling would be a hell of a lot better off.

Hope he sticks with it, hurling needs lads like him.

Bobbys blanket

(241 Posts)

Posted: 01-Jul-2012 13:34

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Originally posted by Harry Styles:
Is he still going to college in LIT? If he is, could he transfer to Limerick? Good hurler, has all the skills and was scoring points against Limerick from all angles. If he did come to Limerick I feel he could get his place in the half forward line! What do ye think?

If he wanted to play for Limerick (which he doesnt) he would not only walk onto your team but would possibly be your best player

johnny cash

(737 Posts)

Posted: 01-Jul-2012 13:49

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I know a bit about kerry hurling. i am not sure pumping a heap of money into it would be a good investment. fact of the matter is outside 8 clubs in north kerry and 2 or 3 in the south, there is no goodwill towards hurling in the football clubs. u d end up with a handful of more clubs playing juvenile hurling and if they were any good the team would be wound down before they got to minor to focus on football.

at least in dublin, u have a population and clubs willing to develop hurling.

Originally posted by An Clár:
Fair play to Willie Hyland - proud hurler and Laois man! I have wondered in the past what cost the development of hurling in Dublin will mean. Huge resources have been pumped in and it has paid dividends (my own kids benefit from an excellent GPO, so I am not complaining!). However, what we really need are other counties developing and improving the likes of Meath, Carlow, Laois, Wicklow, Antrim, Kerry etc to a good standard would make the whole competition more enjoyable. Articles like this makes you think that we are further away than ever from having a competitive competition at AI level.Anyway, good luck to Willie Hyland - I hope he stays with the game - Laois and all hurling supporters need players like him.

dodgy-keeper

(3,496 Posts)

Posted: 01-Jul-2012 13:52

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He was absolutely sensational against Limerick last week, almost led the fight on his own. A real top class hurler, he'd get on nearly every team in the country.

I hope he doesn't walk away. Hurling needs players like him. Players like Willie Hyland are what make the GAA what it is. Doing it for a genuine love of the game and pride in their own place.

A fairly depressing read in that article.

Aragorn

(244 Posts)

Posted: 01-Jul-2012 18:03

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Fair play to Hyland for speaking out. At underage hurling in the county is in quite a healthy state but the senior set-up is so far off what's needed it's beyond belief.

FTJC

(1,138 Posts)

Posted: 01-Jul-2012 18:23

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Laois, Meath, Carlow, Down, Derry, Kerry

All these counties seem to be going backwards and the malaise will continue and widen as long as hurling is being ran by what are effectively football county boards

Limmer

(391 Posts)

Posted: 01-Jul-2012 19:44

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Just thinking/typing here. I've often wondered what would the cost differential be if a separate Árd-Comhairle for hurling was established, and that it took over complete responsibility for the organisation and promotion of hurling alone at national level, much in the same manner as LGFA and Cumann Camógaíochta do for Ladies football and Camogie respectively. Independent, but intrinsically linked.

Such a body would require a professional Árd-Stiúrthóir (someone like Paudie Butler or his ilk) and a paid staff beneath him. It would have one elected rep from each county. It would be entitled to sit on the CCCC obviously, and would have relative autonomy in aspects like sponsor-sourcing, TV rights and it's own PR and marketing wing etc.The marketing potential of hurling is mind-boggling, if it were to be harnessed correctly. In essence, the GAA would simply be the Hurling Authority's guarantor and benefactor, while benefitting itself from revenue and exposure generated through hurling.

Pumping millions into Dublin hurling while a football-dominated IC season remains the status quo seems a ridiculous waste of resources when one considers that the game in Laois and Antrim is struggling for relevance. The last two Saturdays in the Gaelic Grounds were fairly harrowing for hurling in the spiritual sense. The game should be competitive, and mismatches like that should not be allowed.

Laois and Antrim, along with Westmeath and Carlow keep trying at the developmental level. They make progress (Antrim 2010, Laois 2009) and get a bit of momentum going but when old failings (club rivalries, a preoccupation with the big-ball code, the Jerry Wallace/RTE fiasco etc.) rear their head, things unravel very quickly and results like 8-26 to 1-15 happen. Who can blame a lad like Willie Hyland for adopting a guarded, once-bitten-twice-shy approach?

thehermit

(1,143 Posts)

Posted: 01-Jul-2012 20:58

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Originally posted by FTJC:
Laois, Meath, Carlow, Down, Derry, KerryAll these counties seem to be going backwards and the malaise will continue and widen as long as hurling is being ran by what are effectively football county boards

Maybe an independent hurling board could help matters in spreading hurling and making counties like Kerry more competitive, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Lads I've studied the history of the GAA in some detail and I can tell you in newspapers and Central Council meetings they have been having the same conversations sine the 1890s; How do we expand hurling outside the same 5-6 counties.

It is almost a universal fact that the first sport to gain a foothold in the large urban centre's of any area is the one that will dominate. With the exception of Kilkenny and Waterford City and Thurles, is hurling the dominate sport in any large town or city on this island. That's why Kerry never developed hurling outside its traditional heartland, hurling was never able to gain a following in the likes of Tralee, Killarney, Listowel etc.

I am not sure how you solve the problem of expanding hurling. The Christy Ring is a good idea, but its not promoted and given any prominence in the GAA season. Also you saw its limitations in the case of Kerry this year. We won it after a few years of trying, and that seemed to satisfy the squad. We are too weak to enter Munster, but don't have the motivation to win the Christy Ring twice for no real reward.

I wish a county like Laois or Antrim could come from nowhere and have a great run in championship, the likes of what happens in the football championship every now and then, but it seems a forlorn hope at present. Weaker counties won't improve without constant exposure to competitive fixtures against the strongest team, yet how can being humiliated by 20 or 30 points against the likes or Kilkenny or Tipp really help a weaker team.
It's a round peg I'm not sure how to square!

LimerickExileInClare

(750 Posts)

Posted: 01-Jul-2012 21:34

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Bobbys Blanket
You are on the ball,this man would walk on any Team and as you say he would be the best man on most teams including all the Munster counties with exception of few Tipp lads and J Mullane.
This is one of the finest hurlers that I have had the pleasure of watching over the decades.
I have a soft spot For Laois as I spent some good years at school there many decades back and played plenty of hurling and football .
I hope they get their act together for the sake of hurling in that proud county

merman

(11 Posts)

Posted: 02-Jul-2012 13:22

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From a Laois perspective, this was one hell of a read!
Laois hurling circles are pretty small and we all knew some of the stories but this took real passion, conviction and courage.

Makes it nigh impossible for the County Executive to carry on their with their redundant policies....

JohnneyCool

(2,069 Posts)

Posted: 02-Jul-2012 15:53

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Originally posted by FTJC:
Laois, Meath, Carlow, Down, Derry, KerryAll these counties seem to be going backwards and the malaise will continue and widen as long as hurling is being ran by what are effectively football county boards

Thats part of the problem alright, but in Down we have what is ultimately a toothless hurling board, so be careful what you wish for in other counties.

IMO there's room for a competition between the current Liam McCarthy and Christy Ring standards including Laois, Kerry, Antrim, Westmeath, Carlow and a growing London, Wicklow and Derry, possibly Kildare, Down and Armagh, but even within that grouping I could see the likes of Down shipping big losses to an organised Antrim and Laois.

Downs main issue is purely lack of playing numbers with the three senior clubs coming from fairly small catchment area's, Portaferry would have a catchment area of about 2.5K people, Ballycran about 1.5K and ourselves, less that 1000 people. I'd say there are clubs in Dublin with more adult players to pick from.
The only glimmer of hope is that hurling is getting a bit of a foothold in south Belfast with Bredagh and Carryduff challenging and winning juvenile competitions, but it'll need a sustained effort for 10 odd years before I could see a senior team able to challenge coming from that area, and then the lure of the big ball becomes a problem.

When a youngster in Cork, Kilkenny picks up a hurl, he can dream of winning AI's and the structures more or less are there for them to strive to do that, in Down they haven't got the first hope in hell.

Dudley

(76 Posts)

Posted: 03-Jul-2012 12:20

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Superb article from Willie Hyland. The Laois senior hurlers are at an all-time low at the moment, and all of us with a passion for hurling in Laois know who's primarily to blame - Laois County Board. They're a joke. They've made a complete sh@te of the last two appointments of manager. They are totally unwilling to give the panel the required resources, structures and back-up to compete with other Liam McCarthy teams. The board's incompatence has led to an incredible negativity towards our senior hurling team. About a dozen players capable of playing county hurling refused to join the panel this year, while those that did commit were grossly under-prepared. There was an element of inevitablity about the Dublin and Limerick matches. How could Laois be expected the compete with these teams when the respective set-ups are compared. In fairness to the players that were there, they were on a hiding to nothing.

Unless the county board gets serious about the Laois senior hurling team, then Laois, a county that CAN compete at Liam McCarthy level will drift into Christy Ring and beyond.

Legalalien

(1,681 Posts)

Posted: 03-Jul-2012 13:54

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I read this article at the weekend and it filled me with utter dispair.

If such a talented hurler as Willie Hyland can feel the way he does, then Laois hurling and hurling in general is in big trouble.

I really believe a seaparate hurling board is required as in too many counties only scant regard is given to hurling. Whilst I know people can criticise KK over our attitude to hurling this is mirrored throughout the country regards hurling even in strong hurling counties.

It is imperative of the Laois county board or HQ to face this issue as we can't afford to be losing players like Willie. If he walks then we may as well all give up.

I know speaking to one of the Laois hurlers, he talks with envy of the coaching, fitness etc being pumped into the footballers in the county. They are only looking for an even playing field. Hopefully Liam O'Neill will address this issue in his presidency.

Hurling can't afford long term to be restricted to an even smaller number of elite playing counties than currently playing. Without a separate hurling board I struggle to see how hurling can prosper in weaker counties.

The sad thing is some of the finest hurling coaches in the country are Laois men who have helped and continue to help clubs and the county in Kilkenny.

South Limerick Referee

(16,613 Posts)

Posted: 03-Jul-2012 15:17

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If the best hurlers in a county do not make themselves available, then questions have to be asked why. Teddy McCarthy, while a big name, will bring out a book at the end of this year which will undoubtedly outline exactly why he might not have been seen as the right choice by some of the players.

Laois are so close to Kilkenny, is there nobody there, out to make a name for themselves who could use the Laois job as a stepping stone without the county paying out massive expenses. James McGarry was mooted as a Waterford trainer with Jason Ryan, would he take the Laois job??? Are there others in Kilkenny who could first and foremost make the players interested???

Legalalien

(1,681 Posts)

Posted: 03-Jul-2012 15:24

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Originally posted by South Limerick Referee:
If the best hurlers in a county do not make themselves available, then questions have to be asked why. Teddy McCarthy, while a big name, will bring out a book at the end of this year which will undoubtedly outline exactly why he might not have been seen as the right choice by some of the players. Laois are so close to Kilkenny, is there nobody there, out to make a name for themselves who could use the Laois job as a stepping stone without the county paying out massive expenses. James McGarry was mooted as a Waterford trainer with Jason Ryan, would he take the Laois job??? Are there others in Kilkenny who could first and foremost make the players interested???

Niall Rigney is managing the Village, county champions.

Mick Dempesey is a selector on the county team.

They don't even need to get KK lads. We have Laois lads doing a great job in KK.

dubliner 2

(10,823 Posts)

Posted: 03-Jul-2012 15:33

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Just a warning to lads calling for hurling boards independent of football.

That's exactly what we had in Dublin prior to 2004 and it was a disaster, particularly at juvenile level. Constant bickering between the two and even within clubs a divide between hurling people and football people.

What you need is very simple. You need a county chairman, and we had one at the time in John Bailey, who insists that hurling and football be treated equally.

In 2002 he comissioned a report that would totally restructure juvenile in Dublin ensuring that both codes would be played side by side across a season stretching from the beginning of Feb. to the end of Oct. He pushed it through and basically demanded that clubs take it on.

It has worked brilliantly. Lads get the same amount of hurling games now and both codes are treated in the exact same way. It helped that Bailey put people onto the organising committees that shared his ideas. I've no doubt that in particular last year's and this year's minor county teams have benefitted enormously from a proper structure of games in both codes and the work is really beginning to pay off.

All talk about resources and the right manager for the senior team is a waste of time until, in places like Laois, a 12,13,14 year old is getting as many hurling games as football games. That's where it starts. And a board willing to put this into place is what you need.

This message has been edited - 03-jul-2012 @ 15:35

Deise go deo

(2,494 Posts)

Posted: 03-Jul-2012 15:59

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Excellent article. Very disappointing to hear such a young and talented hurler talk this way. The lad is only 23 and has been forced into this position, he should be enjoying his hurling but it sounds like nobody involved with the Laois senior panel enjoyed hurling this year. Which will inevitably lead to players like Hyland, and probably others, to question playing next year. And that is disastrous for the county.

As Hyland says, they need to get a proper structure in place with a good manager who can get everybody togged out for the county.

Its not that long ago that Laois were very competitive in Division 1 of the league and the championship.

Its hard to see it happening, but wouldn't a Leinster U21 title victory over Kilkenny be some lift to Laois.

South Limerick Referee

(16,613 Posts)

Posted: 03-Jul-2012 16:27

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True enough.

The Laois players had massive time for Rigney, and he was in charge when they nearly beat us in 2009 in Thurles.

Originally posted by Legalalien:
Niall Rigney is managing the Village, county champions.Mick Dempesey is a selector on the county team.They don't even need to get KK lads. We have Laois lads doing a great job in KK.

glasandbán

(2,046 Posts)

Posted: 03-Jul-2012 16:43

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Glad someone posted up this article, Hyland was brave enough to touch on issues that are a huge problem in GAA throughout the association, the promotion and management of games and teams. It seems only the top teams will get top preparation and effort put into them, as far as I can see the Laois county board are happy in the knowledge that Laois will never be genuine contenders and so are happy to preside over a half-arsed set up. The same attitude is taken in other counties to greater or lesser degrees whether it be with football/hurling/camogie/underage or whatever being marginalised. It's also happening at a national level with the head honcho's seeming happy to do nothing apparently to help close the gap developed in hurling and happy to allow formerly proud hurling counties to slip into obscurity.

Hyland and the other Laois players deserve the opportunity to develop to be the best that they can be and if not given that opportunity and if others are not putting in similat effort at club or county level in whatever code players will end up walking away and GAA will die on the vine where with a bit of genuine effort it could be thriving.

optimist

(230 Posts)

Posted: 03-Jul-2012 18:09

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time to get real. as of now, in my opinion we have a defined tiered status structure in hurling.
tier 1 kilkenny
tier 2 tipperary
tier 3 cork, clare, limerick, waterford, dublin, galway
tier 4 wexford, offaly
tier 5 the remainder.

in my view a tier 5 team has no chance whatsoever of beating tier 1,2 or 3 teams no matter if like the donegal footballers they trained for 11 stints on a weekly basis.

on a day of days, if a tier 5 team had things go for them and a tier 4 team were off colour, a shock is possible.

likewise a tier 4 team(wex or offaly) will now only beat a tier 3 team if they catch them on a bad day. wex and offaly havent a ghosts chance against the tier 1 or tier 2 teams.

if you take my formula(for want of a better word) as a realistic interpretation of where hurling stands, it may put this sad willie tale into context.

he states laois are missing plenty of good quality hurlers, i dont know who he is talking about, as few if any laois players feature in the fitzgibbon teams, and laois have had nothing at under age level for yonks. i cannot understand from the article if he favours teddy or not, if he believes the team was ill prepared then the manager must take a fair degree of the blame.

truth be told, given the lack of talent in laois, excepting hyland himself, if laois were prepared to the nth degree, they would still have lost to both dublin and limerick, save for the matches being a little more competitive, though same result. you could throw every available resource at laois, carlow westmeath etc in the next 10 months and they still would not get close to, let alone beat a tier 1, 2 or 3 team in a championship game.

waterford pulled themselves up from division 3 hurling back in the 1990s and each county must solve from the roots, little can be done to salvage a lost cause if the seeds were poorly sown in the first place.

we all have our county loyalties, as hurling men we do want to see as many counties competitive as possible.

from a hurling perspective i would be much more worried about the short to mid term prospects of offaly. they have produced nil in the last 4 or 5 years underage and bowed out tamely again in u21 and minor codes. as i see it they are more likely in the near future to drop to tier 5 grade, within 3 years they will struggle to win a game in leinster, unless the decline is arrested. wexford by weight of numbers and patience can climb back to a tier 3 team.

if you dont agree with my analysis, then state if laois in a dreamland scenario had the perfect trainer and a seamless set up, what county in tier 1,2 or 3 would they beat?...if the answer is none then you see the light.

the irony of the laois situation is that liam o neill is now president and a self confessed hurling man. inside the last 15 years according to his profile he has been runai of both laois hurling board and laois county board, and accordingly he must have played a part in the sorry state his county hurlers now find themselves in. is he a mile wide inch thick guy?

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