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Topic: County hurling team average ages
merlante (902 Posts)	Posted: 05-Jul-2012 18:56	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
merlante (902 Posts)	The lazy commentary about Waterford's "old legs" getting tired in the heat, etc., got me wondering if there is any resource out there that give players ages so you could get an average for the team. It would be interesting to know what the oldest/youngest county teams out there are on the basis of the championship games recently played. Might also be interesting to know whether there are positions usually inhabited by younger or older players than average on county teams. I think Waterford will always be an ageing team in some eyes one way or the other!
theblack&amber (593 Posts)	Posted: 05-Jul-2012 19:57	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
theblack&amber (593 Posts)	Originally posted by merlante: The lazy commentary about Waterford's "old legs" getting tired in the heat, etc., got me wondering if there is any resource out there that give players ages so you could get an average for the team. It would be interesting to know what the oldest/youngest county teams out there are on the basis of the championship games recently played. Might also be interesting to know whether there are positions usually inhabited by younger or older players than average on county teams.I think Waterford will always be an ageing team in some eyes one way or the other! Apparently Kilkenny have very old legs as well, and that Tipp were going to run us all over the pitch in last years AI. That didn't happen. You can have young legs all you want, its your experience, work ethic, talent, fitness and speed that count, not the age of your legs. There's still the perception that in Kilkenny we have an old panel although (I think) only four players are over the 30 mark (Shefflin, B Hogan, Hickey and Delaney), 11 players between the age of 25 and 30. That means half our panel is still under 25 (including Murphy, P Hogan, Buckley, C Fennelly, TJ Reid and R Hogan). Average age 25. And that's not including the extended panel, who are mostly U21's.
cork boy (127 Posts)	Posted: 05-Jul-2012 20:57	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
cork boy (127 Posts)	Cork team for Offaly and age 1. Anthony Nash, 27 2. Shane O Neill, 26 3. Brian Murphy, 29 4. Conor O'Sullivan, 23 5. Tom Kenny, 30 6. Christopher Joyce, 20 7. William Egan, 22 8. Darren Sweetnam, 19 9. Lorcán McLoughlin, 22 10. Conor Lehane, 19 11. Cian McCarthy, 22 12. Pa Cronin, 25 13. Jamie Coughlan, 20 14. Paudie O'Sullivan, 23 15. Patrick Horgan, 24
ProjX (726 Posts)	Posted: 05-Jul-2012 21:06	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
ProjX (726 Posts)	Limerick have the most talented young squad in the country. Serious All Ireland contenders over the next few years, if not this year? It is important for the management team, to be committed to ensuring the correct path to success for this team of young talent.
Comic Book Guy (449 Posts)	Posted: 05-Jul-2012 21:16	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Comic Book Guy (449 Posts)	The first post on the Limerick Hurling Panel 2012 thread says the average age of the squad is 24.5
Hold that Line (3,117 Posts)	Posted: 05-Jul-2012 22:09	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Hold that Line (3,117 Posts)	Originally posted by ProjX: Limerick have the most talented young squad in the country. That's very debatable in fairness. There are plenty of good young players coming through in many counties.
Billy De Kid (96 Posts)	Posted: 05-Jul-2012 22:50	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Billy De Kid (96 Posts)	Originally posted by Hold that Line: That's very debatable in fairness. There are plenty of good young players coming through in many counties. There is but not as many as there is in Limerick.Lets hope we do the right thing with them this time round.There is a few all irelands in us.
practiceshot (52 Posts)	Posted: 05-Jul-2012 22:56	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
practiceshot (52 Posts)	Waterford=average age of the team that started against Clare was 26
BeTimberin (2,458 Posts)	Posted: 05-Jul-2012 22:59	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
BeTimberin (2,458 Posts)	Originally posted by Billy De Kid: There is but not as many as there is in Limerick.Lets hope we do the right thing with them this time round.There is a few all irelands in us.
hurling fan (758 Posts)	Posted: 05-Jul-2012 23:02	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
hurling fan (758 Posts)	Originally posted by theblack&amber: Apparently Kilkenny have very old legs as well, and that Tipp were going to run us all over the pitch in last years AI. That didn't happen. You can have young legs all you want, its your experience, work ethic, talent, fitness and speed that count, not the age of your legs.There's still the perception that in Kilkenny we have an old panel although (I think) only four players are over the 30 mark (Shefflin, B Hogan, Hickey and Delaney), 11 players between the age of 25 and 30. That means half our panel is still under 25 (including Murphy, P Hogan, Buckley, C Fennelly, TJ Reid and R Hogan).Average age 25. And that's not including the extended panel, who are mostly U21's. Average age only 25!!! More proof of what Cody does with regards to reseeding his panel. We all know that the Cork and Limerick and Galway panels are young but the KK one is a bit of a surprise.
Roberto Jordan (825 Posts)	Posted: 05-Jul-2012 23:26	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Roberto Jordan (825 Posts)	Originally posted by hurling fan: Average age only 25!!! More proof of what Cody does with regards to reseeding his panel. We all know that the Cork and Limerick and Galway panels are young but the KK one is a bit of a surprise. Aside from having 5 or 6 truly outstanding individuals killkennys key secret, imy opinion, is the stability coasts extended reign has brought to the panel. No massive turnover in a given year. No raft of ys from a single minor or u-21 team simply because a ball broke their way and they won a trophy. Equally no discarding of players too quickly after giving them a chance rather than letting them get a taste, make mistakes, learn and come back stronger. As a Galway hurling man while this year gives hope I am reminded that teams are not built on single age cohorts......when our footballers came thru I n98 they would been at nothing without kevin Walsh, ja, Martin mac, Tomas mannion etc. Equallly tipps recent all Ireland while built on youth would nit have been achieved without eosin Kelly, con or o mahony or lar......... Simple maths says that managing the structures and player& management turnover of the senior inter county panel in such a way that it gives the best opportunity to field the best players from 18 to 30 odd will maximised chance of success. However in hurling and football most counties are stuck in a perpetual cycle of building and rebuilding which in effect means a clear out followed by success , which normally meNs shutting the door or failure which means another clear out..... The counties that are perpetually successful lik Kk and Kerry don't do this as much......the reason why cork mushrooms were noted was because their size meant that at one time they were the only county who could buck this.... As it stands most counties are waiting around for ligthening to strike and luck to deliver a cohort of players at exactly the right time aand place, rather than sustaining a stable panel that pulse the best one or two every year.....
ProjX (726 Posts)	Posted: 05-Jul-2012 23:27	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
ProjX (726 Posts)	Originally posted by Billy De Kid: There is but not as many as there is in Limerick.Lets hope we do the right thing with them this time round.There is a few all irelands in us. Absolutely. Kilkenny, Limerick, Cork and Clare look set to be the teams to beat over the next 5 years.
Hold that Line (3,117 Posts)	Posted: 06-Jul-2012 02:00	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Hold that Line (3,117 Posts)	Originally posted by ProjX: Absolutely. Kilkenny, Limerick, Cork and Clare look set to be the teams to beat over the next 5 years. Lads who were All-Ireland U-21 and minor champions last year? Does that team not even warrant a mention amongst these behemoths of the game? By the way those U-21's actually beat that star-studded Limerick team on the way to the title. Must have been luck I guess. Underage success is nice but I think we all know by now that it is often only a mirage. Building on it is a different kettle of fish altogether. This message has been edited - 06-jul-2012 @ 02:04
Banner1995 (474 Posts)	Posted: 06-Jul-2012 08:38	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Banner1995 (474 Posts)	Originally posted by ProjX: Limerick have the most talented young squad in the country.Serious All Ireland contenders over the next few years, if not this year?It is important for the management team, to be committed to ensuring the correct path to success for this team of young talent. I think Clare Galway and Cork would argue different, plus waterford have some serious talent coming through and tipp could be the team to beat in minor this year. Limerick have some exceptional talent but is a lot of this based on the munster 21 final last year? clare had been in 3 in a row before that and going for 3 in a row in minor so i would suggest we have have a larger pool to pick from, but for sure the step up to senior is the hardest part and i fear a lot of our 09 team are already falling short, but im very hopeful for about 6 of the 10/11 minor teams to make the grade. either way hurling needs new winners, obviously i want it to be clare, but a galway, limerick, waterford or whoever AI Success could kick start a whole new era...?!!
Donohill (732 Posts)	Posted: 06-Jul-2012 08:47	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Donohill (732 Posts)	Originally posted by ProjX: Limerick have the most talented young squad in the country.Serious All Ireland contenders over the next few years, if not this year?It is important for the management team, to be committed to ensuring the correct path to success for this team of young talent. Other than Hannon and Dowling who do you see coming through that is top class as opposed to being a good intercounty hurler?
Sledgehammer (459 Posts)	Posted: 06-Jul-2012 09:17	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Sledgehammer (459 Posts)	Originally posted by Donohill: Other than Hannon and Dowling who do you see coming through that is top class as opposed to being a good intercounty hurler? Please don't get them started, there are a few Limerick lads on here that probably don't do the majority a favour, ie they swim between the abyss and Utopia..never an in between. Never a "We are showing promise, but have to jump ahead to team to beat over the next 5 years etc" Be good to see them back and competing, they hurled exceptionally well against Tipp, albeit still lost and Tipp manager would have got the boot if so. They are improving, but so are Cork and Clare, Cork I would argue more so than any. Hannon and Dowling are fine hurlers, no doubt...but you not only need 15 top players these days but 20. Take it easy. This message has been edited - 06-jul-2012 @ 09:19
merlante (902 Posts)	Posted: 06-Jul-2012 10:52	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
merlante (902 Posts)	Originally posted by ProjX: Absolutely. Kilkenny, Limerick, Cork and Clare look set to be the teams to beat over the next 5 years. Another good question would be the ages of the key players on a given team. In 4 years time, there will be no Mullane, Shefflin, Corbett, etc. Are players of that stature coming through in the teams with low average ages? Perhaps success requires the few older players to knit together the youth. This would explain how underage success often does not translate to senior, and how counties such as Waterford can compete over extended periods whether notable underage success. Counties with star players emerging in their early to mid-20's can be a lot more optimistic than counties with a lot of good, but not outstanding, young players and pivotal players in the verge of retirement.
Site Saviour (478 Posts)	Posted: 06-Jul-2012 11:01	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Site Saviour (478 Posts)	Limerick Players that have played Championship this year and ages: 1. Nicky Quaid (23) 2. Stephen Walsh (26) 3. Richie McCarthy (25) 4. Tom Condon (25) 5. Wayne Mac(26) 6. Donal O'Grady (32) 7. Gavin O'Mahoney (25) 8. James Ryan (25) 9. Paul Browne (23) 10. Shane Dowling (19) 11. David Breen (27) 12. Declan Hannon (20) 13. Graeme Mulcahy (22) 14. Niall Moran (30) 15. Seanie Tobin (23) Kevin Downes (21) Conor Allis (22) Tomas Ryan (20) Tommy O'Brien (23) Seanie O'Brien (20) Brian Geary (32) Aaron Murphy (21) Seamie Hickey (25) Shane O'Neill (27?) Tommy Quaid (26) Players not to play Championship in 2012: Mark Carmody (19) Dave Moloney (25) Cant think of any others Average age (of all players listed above) = 23.22, so 23 Years. This message has been edited - 06-jul-2012 @ 11:04
Star Gazer (161 Posts)	Posted: 06-Jul-2012 11:04	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Star Gazer (161 Posts)	Originally posted by Billy De Kid: There is but not as many as there is in Limerick.Lets hope we do the right thing with them this time round.There is a few all irelands in us. Limerick look to be the coming team all right if we are believe Billy De Kid and others. Trouble is that in the last 10 years, LK have won 1 Munster Under 21 title (beaten in the All Ireland Semi Final) and no Munster Minor titles (last win in 1984). Minors are already gone from this year's Championship. Under 21's are highly rated, but have not played a match yet. If LK actually start winning under age titles, the future be very bleak indeed for the likes of Kilkenny, Tipperary, Cork, Galway etc.
Site Saviour (478 Posts)	Posted: 06-Jul-2012 11:11	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Site Saviour (478 Posts)	Originally posted by Star Gazer: Limerick look to be the coming team all right if we are believe Billy De Kid and others. Trouble is that in the last 10 years, LK have won 1 Munster Under 21 title (beaten in the All Ireland Semi Final) and no Munster Minor titles (last win in 1984). Minors are already gone from this year's Championship. Under 21's are highly rated, but have not played a match yet. If LK actually start winning under age titles, the future be very bleak indeed for the likes of Kilkenny, Tipperary, Cork, Galway etc. Trust me, we are not worried about winning underage titles. We have been there and done that, with probably the best group of u21 hurlers in the history of the game winning 3 in a row at the start of the 00's. We have learned the harsh lesson that it does not translate to Senior success. Whats more important is getting a few real quality hurlers from each team. Thats the real key. Some would even say that for less sucessfful counties, winning at underage can be less beneficial. Ask ourselves and Galway! More importantly, we need to harvest real quality players rather than focusing on winning titles. Obviously winning is a key to creating confidence and the right attitude but its not the be all and end all. For my tuppence worth i think we have a great pool of players and still a few more to come but winning an All Ireland is till a long way away. Winning a Munster Title should be the first main key target for the next 2 years. We need to win our province i think for us to advance to the level where we could win the All Ireland. But i dont think its pipe dream stuff, it is possible.
Site Saviour (478 Posts)	Posted: 06-Jul-2012 11:25	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Site Saviour (478 Posts)	Just to say 2 of the players on the panel i forgot are Paudie O'Brien (23) who has played Championship (v Laois, 3/4's of the game) and Mikey Ryan(20) who has not played Championship in 2012 as of yet. Both players ages are under the average above, so would slightly decrease it again if included in the calculation. Also not sure if James O'Brien (22) is still on the panel?
Donohill (732 Posts)	Posted: 06-Jul-2012 11:27	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Donohill (732 Posts)	I think it has been said often enough here and elsewhere before but the next 5 - 10 years could bring a very open championship. Clare and Limerick are well flagged here. Cork also are bringing in a lot of youth. Kilkenny are in continual transition regarding young players coming in to the team. For Tipp we had 6 starters under 23 v Cork. 9 under 24, plus Callinan and Shane Bourke under 24 on the bench. This is a good place to be and it's noticeable that some of our big leaders such as Bonner, Paidi Maher and Noel are young. Cummins definitely pulls the average age up but the team who started against Cork averaged just over 25 even with a 36 year old keeper. This message has been edited - 06-jul-2012 @ 11:29
lopper (1,990 Posts)	Posted: 06-Jul-2012 11:47	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
lopper (1,990 Posts)	I suppose the thing with Limerick is that 3 of the most talked about players are 20 or under, in Shane Dowling, Declan Hannon and Kevin Downes. It is probably unusual compared to other counties in that a lot of the teams' focus is concentrated on two lads - Dowling and Hannon - who will be U21 for another two years. How healthy it is to have that situation is another days work, but in general the Limerick youth seem to be making the step up fairly well. All in all though, exciting days lie ahead, with a lot of counties getting the conveyer belt going at the moment. This message has been edited - 06-jul-2012 @ 13:30
Legalalien (1,681 Posts)	Posted: 06-Jul-2012 12:09	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Legalalien (1,681 Posts)	Just looking at the KK winning all ireland teams under Cody the average of the teams were the following: 2000 - 26 2002 - 25 (6) 2003 - 25 (4) 2006 - 25 (6) 2007 - 26 (3) 2008 - 27 (0) 2009 - 27 (2) 2011 - 28 (4) The aging was impacted in part by Eddie Brennan who added a year to the average age in 2011. The benefit, however, has been the blend of young and old. In brackets are the number of guys starting their first winning all ireland (but doesn;t take into account many lads who came on as a sub in previous all irelands or lost in the previous year - eg Mick Fennelly a case in point in 2011. I actually don't think age matters. Look at the young Cork team of JBM mark I. Its all about ability, however, Cody does seem to have managed to make the blend of hungry young guys with wiser old heads as a means of keeping the hunger and drive going. Other than in the early years, he did seem reluctant to start new young lads, however, why change a winning formula.
rebelrebel30 (8,531 Posts)	Posted: 06-Jul-2012 13:23	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
rebelrebel30 (8,531 Posts)	Originally posted by Donohill: I think it has been said often enough here and elsewhere before but the next 5 - 10 years could bring a very open championship. Clare and Limerick are well flagged here. Cork also are bringing in a lot of youth. Kilkenny are in continual transition regarding young players coming in to the team.For Tipp we had 6 starters under 23 v Cork. 9 under 24, plus Callinan and Shane Bourke under 24 on the bench. This is a good place to be and it's noticeable that some of our big leaders such as Bonner, Paidi Maher and Noel are young. Cummins definitely pulls the average age up but the team who started against Cork averaged just over 25 even with a 36 year old keeper. 9 of the cork team lining out saturday night are 23 or under.

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