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Topic: Clare - Papering over the cracks
Tom Sawyer
(233 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 00:32
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Good win tonight.

However I think our first half performance has to be addressed - it was disgraceful .

This short ball bull sh$t has to be put to rest for once and for all. It cost us two scores in the first half and could have cost us the game. Lads passing short for the sake of it - we deserved what we got out of that.

When Nicky got sent off and we went direct it delivered dividends, just as in the second half against Limerick in the div 1B final. This pathetic attempt at a short game is masked for now but it will kill us - we have some of the most exciting young hurlers in the country but Davy is subjecting us to this horse-sh$t.

The crowd around me were gone nuts at this shorty game - but I guess for now the 'Yes' men will accept it because of the victory
Blanco
(7,909 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 00:44
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The biggest weakness in Clare's game tonight was the needless concession of free's, time and time again they would have a Dublin player crowded or going backwards even , and then they would give that Dublin player an easy out by committing a stupid foul on him.

Grand if an opposition player hits a great point under big pressure or on his back-foot , not much you can do then but to continuously give them a free shot in front of goal is criminal, especially when they have a good free taker.

A few Clare posters here were giving out about the ref earlier on in the game , but it was not his fault , Clare were fouling a lot.

Also Davy will not be happy with some of the very bad wides near the end that would have closed out the game , on another day that will prove very costly.

And of course they did overdo the short passing at times and got caught out a couple of times especially coming out of defense , a more goal savvy Team than Dublin would make you pay big time.

The good thing for Clare is that a lot of these things can be sorted by experience and players learning from it, if they are willing to listen and learn.

This message has been edited - 08-jul-2012 @ 00:46
Tom Sawyer
(233 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 00:51
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I agree fully about the frees. We kept Dublin in it because of fouling in the first half.

But this short game THAT DOES NOT WORK for Clare, needs to be eliminated.

We got away wit it tonight.
This message has been edited - 08-jul-2012 @ 09:32
paddy last
(23 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 01:18
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Thank god Dublin weren't that good today! Actually this year in general
insideoutside
(16 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 01:21
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What a heap of rubbish. Three or four passes went astray in the first half but what about the long balls driven into the Dublin half backline and were mopped up. Davy is not a fitness couch but is trying to get a team that has only won one champ game in the last ten years to play a bit of inteligent hurling. In the second half when down a man and the nervousness left the players they played the hurling that Davy wants them to play, win the ball move it to a better placed player be it by handpass or stick. These players have little confidence and it is refreshing to see that when they opened up in the second half what they can do. With a season playing Div 1 hurling they will improve no end. Remember the age of the players that finished the game, Galvin, Kelly , Cunningham and McGrath were'nt they fantastic.
Tom Sawyer
(233 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 01:27
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Originally posted by insideoutside:
What a heap of rubbish. Three or four passes went astray in the first half but what about the long balls driven into the Dublin half backline and were mopped up. Davy is not a fitness couch but is trying to get a team that has only won one champ game in the last ten years to play a bit of inteligent hurling. In the second half when down a man and the nervousness left the players they played the hurling that Davy wants them to play, win the ball move it to a better placed player be it by handpass or stick. These players have little confidence and it is refreshing to see that when they opened up in the second half what they can do. With a season playing Div 1 hurling they will improve no end. Remember the age of the players that finished the game, Galvin, Kelly , Cunningham and McGrath were'nt they fantastic.

Three or four passes???? You are a complete and utter idiot.

How many scores came off those 'three or four' passes?

This message has been edited - 08-jul-2012 @ 09:18
insideoutside
(16 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 01:32
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My good man Dublin scored 2 points from play in the first half. Enough said go to bed.
Tom Sawyer
(233 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 01:34
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Originally posted by insideoutside:
What a heap of rubbish. Three or four passes went astray in the first half but what about the long balls driven into the Dublin half backline and were mopped up. Davy is not a fitness couch but is trying to get a team that has only won one champ game in the last ten years to play a bit of inteligent hurling. In the second half when down a man and the nervousness left the players they played the hurling that Davy wants them to play, win the ball move it to a better placed player be it by handpass or stick. These players have little confidence and it is refreshing to see that when they opened up in the second half what they can do. With a season playing Div 1 hurling they will improve no end. Remember the age of the players that finished the game, Galvin, Kelly , Cunningham and McGrath were'nt they fantastic.

One champ game in last 10 years??

If Davy wanted them to play direct hurling, like u claim, are u saying they ignored his wishes in the first half and took it upon themselves to play this scutter short passing game
?

it is idiots and 'Yes' men like you who have Clare hurling where it is
Tom Sawyer
(233 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 01:37
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Originally posted by insideoutside:
My good man Dublin scored 2 points from play in the first half. Enough said go to bed.

And were any of those

A) from f&@ked up short puck outs
Or
B) from intercepted hand passes

This message has been edited - 08-jul-2012 @ 09:20
Bannerabu
(549 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 01:40
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No its ASSHOLES like you that cant see a game plan
Tom Sawyer
(233 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 01:44
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Originally posted by Bannerabu:
No its ASSHOLES like you that cant see a game plan

And what game plan was that???

Just like with Waterford, there was no game plan. And if there was a game plan, it was a short game that yet again back fired spectacularly, it was not until lads were left to their own devices and allowed hurl naturally that we came into the game.

'Game Plan'....another village idiot
Bannerabu
(549 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 01:54
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As insideout already tried to explain but its probably a bit elaborate for you so im not going waste my time on you
Tom Sawyer
(233 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 02:04
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Originally posted by Bannerabu:
As insideout already tried to explain but its probably a bit elaborate for you so im not going waste my time on you


Because trying to explain the inexplicable is beyond your intellect.

Unlike you, I was in Cusack Park tonight, and have been at most games this year . The short passing debacle tonight had EVERYONE around me in absolute frustration and disgust, particularly when we have hurlers of outstanding ability in our ranks, but I wouldn't expect a 'Yes' man like you to understand that
Bannerabu
(549 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 02:20
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I too was there this evening and was also at most games this year. I agree it can be frustrating at times but compared to earlier in the year it has not been used as much but a more varied supply. If a player is in a better position to deliver you give it to him no point in blasting aimless ball out of defence when we dont have the physical presence to challenge for it. Now it does look terrible when intercepted but Davy is working with a young bunch of players and it will take patience. Yes it cost us 2 or 3 scores 2day but our main flaw was concession of frees.

I dont expect you to agree but respect other peoples point of view without dismissing them because its not a view shared by you.
Tom Sawyer
(233 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 02:28
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Originally posted by Bannerabu:
I too was there this evening and was also at most games this year. I agree it can be frustrating at times but compared to earlier in the year it has not been used as much but a more varied supply. If a player is in a better position to deliver you give it to him no point in blasting aimless ball out of defence when we dont have the physical presence to challenge for it. Now it does look terrible when intercepted but Davy is working with a young bunch of players and it will take patience. Yes it cost us 2 or 3 scores 2day but our main flaw was concession of frees.I dont expect you to agree but respect other peoples point of view without dismissing them because its not a view shared by you.

You are right - it did cost us 2 or 3 scores and only for Kelly's goal those mistakes would have cost us the match. But that is exactly my point - we got away wit it today .

The top teams will play a short game when they absolutely need to or when they are in trouble - we are playing it just for the sake of it without any reason to do so when a direct approach (like 2nd half tonight) is far more beneficial
Tom Sawyer
(233 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 02:28
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Originally posted by Bannerabu:
I too was there this evening and was also at most games this year. I agree it can be frustrating at times but compared to earlier in the year it has not been used as much but a more varied supply. If a player is in a better position to deliver you give it to him no point in blasting aimless ball out of defence when we dont have the physical presence to challenge for it. Now it does look terrible when intercepted but Davy is working with a young bunch of players and it will take patience. Yes it cost us 2 or 3 scores 2day but our main flaw was concession of frees.I dont expect you to agree but respect other peoples point of view without dismissing them because its not a view shared by you.

You are right - it did cost us 2 or 3 scores and only for Kelly's goal those mistakes would have cost us the match. But that is exactly my point - we got away wit it today .

The top teams will play a short game when they absolutely need to or when they are in trouble - we are playing it just for the sake of it without any reason to do so when a direct approach (like 2nd half tonight) is far more beneficial
ljk
(117 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 02:32
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Originally posted by Tom Sawyer:

You are right - it did cost us 2 or 3 scores and only for Kelly's goal those mistakes would have cost us the match. But that is exactly my point - we got away wit it today .The top teams will play a short game when they absolutely need to or when they are in trouble - we are playing it just for the sake of it without any reason to do so when a direct approach (like 2nd half tonight) is far more beneficial

if ye draw limk how will ye go?
squareba11
(304 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 02:36
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I would say that for that system to work properly it would take a year or two before you would see the best of it. When Nicky got sent off we used plenty of short passes (anything up to 15 yards I would consider short) but we used the ball more intelligently and the players worked harder to break the tackle after a short pass. We have a shortage of natural ball winners on the team and need to play to our strengths. You can hardly blame a manager for lads getting blocked trying to hand-pass the ball? Driving a big long ball in and loosing it and the opposition going up the field is as bad as loosing it playing the ball short. Only difference is it doesn't look bad. When our players get more used to the system their decision making will improve and we will rarely see them caught in possession.
Tom Sawyer
(233 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 02:40
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Originally posted by squareba11:
I would say that for that system to work properly it would take a year or two before you would see the best of it. When Nicky got sent off we used plenty of short passes (anything up to 15 yards I would consider short) but we used the ball more intelligently and the players worked harder to break the tackle after a short pass. We have a shortage of natural ball winners on the team and need to play to our strengths. You can hardly blame a manager for lads getting blocked trying to hand-pass the ball? Driving a big long ball in and loosing it and the opposition going up the field is as bad as loosing it playing the ball short. Only difference is it doesn't look bad. When our players get more used to the system their decision making will improve and we will rarely see them caught in possession.

When Nicky got sent off we did NOT use plenty of short passes ....we reverted to a lot more direct approach , just like we did against Limerick in league final.

Tom Sawyer
(233 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 02:42
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Originally posted by ljk:
if ye draw limk how will ye go?

If we are allowed go out and hurl, then we can beat Limerick.

If we are suffocated by the rubbish of game plans and short passing then Limerick will win pulling up
Ozzy
(1,867 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 03:16
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I get the point of the topic, but in fairness the over elaboration stopped after the sending off. The attempts to work it out with ten yard passes didn't work in the first half and I hope a few lessons were learned on the side line. These tactics almost cost Clare the final against Lmk in the league but after the game against Wfd I presumed they'd been dispensed with, sadly not. Got away with it today, but surely the lesson has been learned now.
Anyway, great second half performance and a great result. It must be acknowledged. While I'd say many in the Clare support aren't happy with the first half, the second half was great and credit must go to manager and selectors.
I do agree with Tom Sawyer that the tactics used in the first half were flawed but I think describing someone as a 'spastic' is very wrong and hope that's withdrawn.
Anyway, all credit to the players, is huge potential there and a great chance of winning titles in the next four years. The talent is there.
gaelforce10
(631 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 07:38
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it was terrible in the first half - way over elaborate.
looks like he wanted to play this way against the wind and told them to be more direct with the wind
what's encouraging for me is davy made mistakes in the first game which he rectified here, by bringing in new players.
the man has to be allowed to make mistakes as he goes along. remember it is his first year with these lads.

if he learns from last nights mistakes for the next one we will be better again
LETRIP
(2,049 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 08:50
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Originally posted by Tom Sawyer:
If we are allowed go out and hurl, then we can beat Limerick. If we are suffocated by the rubbish of game plans and short passing then Limerick will win pulling up

Tom you are not a well man!!!

eekovarh
(225 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 09:00
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the fact that we were miles a better team with 14 players, without Nicky than we were with him on highlights what has been obvious for a long time, he does not have the strength for intercounty hurling. We now have a chance to make the team stronger, by introducing Enda Barrett and Patrick O'Connor onto the team instead of Conor Cooney who has also struggled in games to date and Nicky O'Connell.
N16
(1,724 Posts)
Posted: 08-Jul-2012 09:33
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I'd like to see the whole game again without being tied up in the emotion of it. SWe gave away 2 scores from short passing in the first half, one of thise from a shortpuck out and the other when Pat Donnellan came out brilliantly with a ball but telegraphed the pass. Think there was another poos pass shoortly after that one that was intercepted but put wide or dropped short. I also only had the view of what was on camera so couldnt see the whole field but I felt at times they had to play short ball as a long strike would have been hooked or blocked. Cian got caught out badly with one clearance in the first half where he took too long to hit it and it lead to a Dublin score, so when you do have a chance to clear at this level, it has to go first time, hesitate and you'll be caught. We hit a lot of aimless ball at times last night but so did Dublin. We went a bit more direect in the second half but short ball too because we had no choice.
There's a lot of this thing in Clare, you hear lads roaring in matches "will you hit the ball down the field". All well and good when you're 4 or 5 points up and the game over and you're closing it out, but this thing of hitting the ball down the fieldfor the sake of getting rid of it is an age old problem we have, pure junior hurling and nothing more. I'm not in favour of playing the ball around for the sake of it, far from it but neither do I want to see a return to the 760s or 80s and lads flying out with ball and skying it down the other end of the field and the crowd roaring and it coming back as fast.
The most important thing last night was the result. Tom this is the youngest Clare side I can remember playing in any game and they beat what are considered an established side. We are still very much a developing side and still a few years from the finished article. But we won last night and thats all that matters. Davy has definately made great progress and kudos to the Spparrow as well for throwing lads like Conlon, Honan, McGrath etc into it when they were young. We're going places and thats what matters. Up the Banner.

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