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Topic: Another Excellent piece from Eamonn Sweeney
frasiercrane
(1,843 Posts)
Posted: 15-Jul-2012 12:39
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Begrudgers still don't get it
By Eamonn Sweeney
Sunday July 15 2012

Everybody knew Kildare had stepped up a level this year and would beat Meath, heralding the beginning of the end of Seamus McEnaney's time in charge of the Royals.

Everybody knew Galway were the big dark horses in this year's football championship and would hammer Sligo, who'd gone back since their exploits of two years ago.

Everybody knew that, bad and all as they were, Meath would beat Carlow out the gate in their first championship meeting.

Everybody knew that Dublin would repeat the ruthlessness they'd displayed against Louth and hammer a declining Wexford team.

Everybody knew that a woefully inadequate Roscommon side didn't have a hope against a resurgent Armagh side fresh from an unlucky defeat in a classic encounter with Tyrone.

Everybody knew that a Limerick team who'd failed to kick on from last year's encouraging performances under Donal O'Grady would ship a real beating from Tipperary.

Everybody knew that Dublin would bounce back from their defeat against Kilkenny and be too strong for an inexperienced Clare team who'd be looking to put down a few markers for the future.

And everybody really, really knew that the best Galway could hope for against Kilkenny was an honourable defeat against a team whose awesome strength in depth meant they had no significant challengers this season.

That's the problem with the championships. They're so bloody predictable.

It's been some All-Ireland campaign, hasn't it? We're only midway through July and already there's been enough surprise and drama to enliven the most jaded palates.

Well, maybe not the most jaded palates. Because I've a strange feeling that the professional naysayers and begrudgers who are ever ready to proclaim the decrepitude of the GAA's blue riband competitions won't let a little thing like actual results change their minds.

They're a rum bunch, these guys who sit high up in the commentary and press boxes and ------- down on the degraded stuff they witness on the pitch below. The poor sap in the stands might think he's had a decent afternoon's entertainment but they want to disabuse him of his delusions. Football is going to hell in a handcart! The Liam MacCarthy Cup might as well be presented to Kilkenny now! We need major structural changes! We need a task force! We need an open draw! Or else we're all doomed, doomed I tell you!

No prophet of doom ever went broke in this country I suppose. But the problem with these gents is that they're a bit like the lad who decides to borrow his neighbour's lawnmower and on the way over starts thinking, 'he never liked me, I know what'll happen, I'll get there and he'll make a big deal out of it, like he's doing me a huge favour, like I really owe him now, making me feel small,' so that when he gets to the house and the neighbour answers the door your man says, 'you can keep your ----ing lawnmower'.

These pundits look ahead to a season where Kilkenny steamroller the opposition in Leinster en route to an inevitable sixth All-Ireland in seven years, where Tipp walk through Munster, where defensive football rules the roost, the Connacht championship is a two-horse race between Mayo and Galway, Dublin and Kildare stroll past all opposition in Leinster and Ulster is a grim dogfight from start to finish. And like our friend without the lawnmower, they feel like the worst has already happened and pontificate accordingly so that when things don't turn out as they predicted, it almost doesn't matter.

Hence that most irritating tic of Irish sports journalism, the tendency to declare rather than surmise in match previews. You don't say, 'I think Kilkenny will probably beat Galway today,' you say, 'Kilkenny will beat Galway today.' Or, 'Sligo won't be strong enough for Galway' or 'Kildare will dispose of Meath without too much bother.' It sounds more impressive that way.

The only problem is that a world where everyone behaves as if they know what's going to happen rather than suspect what might happen, results can somehow seem by the by. The reputations of some teams, for example, seem impervious to how they actually perform on the pitch. Derry are a prime example of this. In the run-up to the Oak Leaf County's qualifier meeting with Longford a couple of weeks back, it was suggested that a victory over Derry would represent a major step forward. However, Longford had already beaten Derry in 2006 and have been a better team than them in recent years. There was nothing surprising about their victory. Yet the idea that Derry are a good side will probably survive this result too.

Laois and Armagh are other counties whose bona fides are perpetually adjudged to be intact no matter how poorly they perform on the field. The expectation that Armagh would eat Roscommon without salt flew in the face of the championship showings of both teams over the last couple of seasons but it was there all the same. It was just one more thing that everybody knew.

The big thing everybody knows at the moment is that the football championship is in big trouble. This will apparently be solved by the institution of a two-tier competition even though no-one can suggest which teams belong in which tiers. (I suspect the proponents of this arrangement would have Derry, Armagh, Laois and Galway in the top tier and Longford, Sligo and Roscommon in the bottom one). Or the competition would be improved by the scrapping of the provincial system and institution of an open draw. Ah yes, that old chestnut. Remember when people told us an Open Draw would institute exciting new rivalries which would really pack in the crowds? The relatively disappointing qualifier attendances give the lie to that one. By and large, it's still time-hallowed local rivalries that put bums on seats.

This year's wonderful idea was that the championship's start was too low-key and that we needed a big opener with Dublin at home in Croke Park to 'set the tone'. Of course. Like those big full-house National League openers with Dublin at home in Croke Park which are forgotten within a couple of weeks and have no effect on crowds for the rest of the competition.

The great thing about something that everybody knows is that it can't be disproved. It's just right in some integral unprovable way. It belongs to the world of faith rather than reason.

But in reality the championships are going pretty well. Everyone salivated over Euro 2012 but did it contain that many games which surpassed the Kilkenny-Galway, Tipperary-Limerick and Tipperary-Cork hurling games for sheer visceral excitement? Or the Meath-Kildare, Down-Monaghan and Sligo-Galway football clashes for that matter?

This country is struggling on many fronts. A fairly shocking survey published during the week by the Irish League of Credit Unions under the title 'What's Left' found that more than 1.8 million people in this country have only €100 or less left when their household bills are paid each month. Four out of ten adults have borrowed to pay a household bill in the past year, half of all households struggle to pay their bills on time, 602,000 have no money at all left when bills are paid.

But against this frankly frightening backdrop the hurling and football championships could boast an average attendance of 16,032 last year. You want to know how good this is for an amateur competition in a small country with a small population? It's better than the average for the Heineken Cup (14,423), the Brazilian Serie A soccer league (14,058), the Russian Premier soccer league (13,066) and England's Aviva Rugby Union Premiership (12,925). And it compares pretty well with the averages for America's mighty NHL (17,455) and NBA (17,244).

If you're getting the sort of numbers the GAA attracts in through the turnstiles, chances are there's nothing drastically wrong with the championships after all.

Why doesn't everybody know that?

backpage@independent.ie

- Eamonn Sweeney
Kobe Shefflin
(265 Posts)
Posted: 15-Jul-2012 12:47
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Great article. The sooner that teams are taken at face value and not regarded by historical reputation the better. It won't happen anytime soon though. The attendance statistic is excellent also, and a real indication of how there still is support for the games regardless of people complaining because every game isn't a sell-out.
Yojimbo
(13,947 Posts)
Posted: 15-Jul-2012 15:47
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Originally posted by Kobe Shefflin:
Great article. The sooner that teams are taken at face value and not regarded by historical reputation the better. It won't happen anytime soon though. The attendance statistic is excellent also, and a real indication of how there still is support for the games regardless of people complaining because every game isn't a sell-out.

He's used sentences starting with the word 'Everybody' the way I use sentences, or clauses, beginning with 'and'
And I note he followed up the seven 'Everybody' sentences with one 'And'.
Far too many paragraphs of similar length, though: scanning it, its difficult to see which points he wants to stress, apart from those first few 'quickfire' sentences
frasiercrane
(1,843 Posts)
Posted: 15-Jul-2012 15:59
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Originally posted by Yojimbo:

He's used sentences starting with the word 'Everybody' the way I use sentences, or clauses, beginning with 'and'
And I note he followed up the seven 'Everybody' sentences with one 'And'.
Far too many paragraphs of similar length, though: scanning it, its difficult to see which points he wants to stress, apart from those first few 'quickfire' sentences

What fcuking difference does it make.Once you can understand the point he is making and most people can his grammar is completely irrelevant.I wouldn't read any Cormac McCarthy books if I were you is this article upsets you

c
(285 Posts)
Posted: 15-Jul-2012 16:07
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Good article alright. Even Newstalk panel yesterday were whining about football as a spectacle and that it didn't match up to when they were playing - and that was Oisin McConville and Colm Parkinson who aren't exactly Pat Spillane's vintage. Sure there are some bad games but there always are
hunter
(175 Posts)
Posted: 15-Jul-2012 16:48
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Reasonable article but by no means his best. More of a printed rant than a calculated article
Yojimbo
(13,947 Posts)
Posted: 15-Jul-2012 17:02
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Originally posted by frasiercrane:
What fcuking difference does it make.Once you can understand the point he is making and most people can his grammar is completely irrelevant.I wouldn't read any Cormac McCarthy books if I were you is this article upsets you

Structure makes a helluva difference when you want to make a point

Anyone but FF
(1,490 Posts)
Posted: 15-Jul-2012 17:48
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Originally posted by c:
Good article alright. Even Newstalk panel yesterday were whining about football as a spectacle and that it didn't match up to when they were playing - and that was Oisin McConville and Colm Parkinson who aren't exactly Pat Spillane's vintage. Sure there are some bad games but there always are

FFS the two boys played in the era of the blanket defence. How could they be in any position to pine for "the good old days"
cityoftribes
(3,030 Posts)
Posted: 15-Jul-2012 21:11
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Originally posted by Yojimbo:

Structure makes a helluva difference when you want to make a point

So does punctuation.
keane2097
(3 Posts)
Posted: 18-Jul-2012 13:08
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Any article that highlights the enormous propensity of GAA journalists to "interpret" events to fit with the narrative they've already got laid out in their heads gets the thumbs up from me.
inbetweeners
(413 Posts)
Posted: 18-Jul-2012 13:38
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Oh course the irony of the whole article is that he is a typical paranoid bitter GAA fan - like a lot of posters on this site. He goes on about other sports throughout the whole article. He should worried about the GAA and its failures rather than worrying himself about stupid comparisons with other sports. Usual guff out of him.
frasiercrane
(1,843 Posts)
Posted: 18-Jul-2012 13:47
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Originally posted by inbetweeners:
Oh course the irony of the whole article is that he is a typical paranoid bitter GAA fan - like a lot of posters on this site. He goes on about other sports throughout the whole article. He should worried about the GAA and its failures rather than worrying himself about stupid comparisons with other sports. Usual guff out of him.

Youve made a bit of an eeijit of yourself their.Eamonn Sweeney is a massive Sligo Rovers fan I am almost certain he wrote his favourite sporting moment was Sligo winning the cup.

What he wrote in the above article is correct.For some reason almsot every bit of GAA coverage seems top focus on what isnt right as opposed to what is right.Even in the indo yesterday Martin breheny was complaing about teh standard of the Munster hurling championship.Why coudlnt he just enjoy the hurling and to be honest I didnt see too much wrong with the standard of hurling.
This message has been edited - 18-jul-2012 @ 13:48
Squirrel Farrell
(1,009 Posts)
Posted: 18-Jul-2012 14:13
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GAA journalists do have a habit of viewing everything through thorn tinted glasses. I think part of this is because most of them are now full-time journalists. They watch, read about and talk about hurling and football 24/7. They have an overkill of sporting action and it has lost it's flavour for them. It has ceased being a pastime for them.

richardrichard
(117 Posts)
Posted: 18-Jul-2012 14:32
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Originally posted by frasiercrane:
.Even in the indo yesterday Martin breheny was complaing about teh standard of the Munster hurling championship.Why coudlnt he just enjoy the hurling and to be honest I didnt see too much wrong with the standard of hurling.

Its a long time since anyone took martin breheny too seriously. he's up there with Tomas Mulcahy for predictable cliched commentary
BellShafted
(1,123 Posts)
Posted: 18-Jul-2012 15:14
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Is Sweeney not one of those ‘guys who sit high up in the commentary and press boxes and ------- down on the degraded stuff they witness on the pitch below?’ I doubt you’d have to look through too many back issues to find Sweeney calling for a restructure, stating A will beat B, Kilkenny will walk it, calling for a marquee game to kick off the season etc, etc That’s the great thing for journalists, you can write or say virtually the opposite of what they said two weeks previous to make themseves sound smart and feel smug, and no one even notices.
T_de_B
(3,147 Posts)
Posted: 18-Jul-2012 15:50
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Originally posted by BellShafted:
Is Sweeney not one of those ‘guys who sit high up in the commentary and press boxes and ------- down on the degraded stuff they witness on the pitch below?’ I doubt you’d have to look through too many back issues to find Sweeney calling for a restructure, stating A will beat B, Kilkenny will walk it, calling for a marquee game to kick off the season etc, etc That’s the great thing for journalists, you can write or say virtually the opposite of what they said two weeks previous to make themseves sound smart and feel smug, and no one even notices.

Fair play to you, Boy.

Jaysus, its a fair long road one would have to travel before one came accross such unmitigated ignorant bullshít.

And to think we have you here on tap.

There's richness as Wackford Squeers was wont to say!

jerryp
(1,260 Posts)
Posted: 18-Jul-2012 17:27
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Excellent piece ? I beg to differ. Longwinded and badly laid out, making it a not so easy read.
Sweeney is as likely to argue the exact opposite next week.
inbetweeners
(413 Posts)
Posted: 18-Jul-2012 17:50
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Originally posted by frasiercrane:
Youve made a bit of an eeijit of yourself their.Eamonn Sweeney is a massive Sligo Rovers fan I am almost certain he wrote his favourite sporting moment was Sligo winning the cup.
What he wrote in the above article is correct.For some reason almsot every bit of GAA coverage seems top focus on what isnt right as opposed to what is right.Even in the indo yesterday Martin breheny was complaing about teh standard of the Munster hurling championship.Why coudlnt he just enjoy the hurling and to be honest I didnt see too much wrong with the standard of hurling.

So I made an eejit out of myself becasue he is a Sligo Rovers fan. I am sorry I can't follow the logic there but then again apparently I am a bit of an eejit.

He goes off on a tangent about matches at the euros and misleading attendance figures but that is ok beasue he is a Sligo Rovers fan.

Suppose I could just spam the opening page with 32 GAA teams to keep a topic I don't like off the site.

Learn to spell eejit before calling other people one.
This message has been edited - 18-jul-2012 @ 17:53
frasiercrane
(1,843 Posts)
Posted: 18-Jul-2012 19:38
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Originally posted by inbetweeners:
So I made an eejit out of myself becasue he is a Sligo Rovers fan. I am sorry I can't follow the logic there but then again apparently I am a bit of an eejit.He goes off on a tangent about matches at the euros and misleading attendance figures but that is ok beasue he is a Sligo Rovers fan.Suppose I could just spam the opening page with 32 GAA teams to keep a topic I don't like off the site.Learn to spell eejit before calling other people one.

You said he was a "typically paranoid GAA fan" as if he only supported GAA and had some problem with other sports.

He wasnt going off on a tangent, he was pointing out that there are a lot of things to be positive about in the GAA i.e the attendances but generally GAA journalists put more emphasis on the negative side of things.Those points he made were valid, the GAA championship attendances are pretty good compared to other sports and considering the size of the country and the level of entertainment provided so far in this years championship has been excellent as well.
Deiseallstar
(69 Posts)
Posted: 18-Jul-2012 21:33
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I love reading Eamon Sweeneys articles in the sunday indo even dough id have no interest in some of the subjects he comments on.
Being from the GAA family i really like his work in that field
With one or two other contributers its the only reason i buy the Indo which otherwise i really dont rate at all.
So keep it up Eamon and at least keep giveing me something for my 2.70.
lovelypoint
(626 Posts)
Posted: 18-Jul-2012 21:37
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Excellent piece, and said a lot of things that needed to be said.
inbetweeners
(413 Posts)
Posted: 19-Jul-2012 08:30
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Originally posted by frasiercrane:

You said he was a "typically paranoid GAA fan" as if he only supported GAA and had some problem with other sports.He wasnt going off on a tangent, he was pointing out that there are a lot of things to be positive about in the GAA i.e the attendances but generally GAA journalists put more emphasis on the negative side of things.Those points he made were valid, the GAA championship attendances are pretty good compared to other sports and considering the size of the country and the level of entertainment provided so far in this years championship has been excellent as well.

Building straw men I see.

The attendances are not actually that good compared with other sports. He is comparing apples with oranges.
This message has been edited - 19-jul-2012 @ 08:30
BellShafted
(1,123 Posts)
Posted: 19-Jul-2012 09:30
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Originally posted by T_de_B:
Fair play to you, Boy.Jaysus, its a fair long road one would have to travel before one came accross such unmitigated ignorant bullshít.And to think we have you here on tap.There's richness as Wackford Squeers was wont to say!

Too cryptic for me T de B. I'll try and work out what you're on about later.
T_de_B
(3,147 Posts)
Posted: 19-Jul-2012 10:37
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Originally posted by BellShafted:
Too cryptic for me T de B. I'll try and work out what you're on about later.

Good man.

frasiercrane
(1,843 Posts)
Posted: 19-Jul-2012 13:34
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Originally posted by inbetweeners:
Building straw men I see.The attendances are not actually that good compared with other sports. He is comparing apples with oranges.

Yes they are.Gaelic Football is teh best attended sport in Ireland hurling is second.And the GAA championships have higher attendances than those competitions he listed, the Heineken cup has a similar structure to ithe All Ireland championships so is a like for like comparison.And consideirng the population on Russia, Brazil and America/Canada to Ireland its pretty good to have similar attendances to the biggets sports elagues in those countries.Also the GAA championships are the second best attended amateur sports compeition in the world behind College football in America
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