An Fear Rua - Waterford vs Cork- All Ireland QF

Healy52007

(531 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 12:19

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Could be a close game. Waterford will want to bounce back after the Munster final defeat and Cork who are on fire scoring will want to keep that going.

I think Cork will win this one by 2 points.

Can see John Mullane calling it a day this year for some reason (shame really as he only in his early 30's).

merlante

(902 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 12:38

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Originally posted by Healy52007:
Could be a close game. Waterford will want to bounce back after the Munster final defeat and Cork who are on fire scoring will want to keep that going.I think Cork will win this one by 2 points.Can see John Mullane calling it a day this year for some reason (shame really as he only in his early 30's).

Think Waterford will shade it by a few points. I'm actually happier in a way to be playing Cork, because Waterford will be well up for it and will know that they'll have to take their chances. Against Limerick I often feel Waterford don't bring the same intensity and even though we generally come through, we often don't look comfortable and come pretty close to losing.

It will be interesting to see if lads like Gavin O'Brien, Tommy Ryan or Martin O’Neill can make an impact. If one or two make an impact it could make a big difference to Waterford's chances from here on in, since we seem to be one or two forwards short. Thought Paul O'Brien looked very comfortable when he came on against Tipp and his first touch was very good. I would like to see Shanahan be more direct is his usage of the ball. Looking forward to this game.

Collig

(1,690 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 13:06

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I hope our Deise friends don't see it as overconfidence that Cork supporters were happy to get them in the draw, it's just we were bloody delighted not to get Kilkenny given our recent history of beatings off them.

I know Waterford have also had the upperhand against Cork in recent times but there's never been more than a puck of a ball between the teams. I really see this game as 50/50 and I think it has the potential to develop into a real shootout like some of the games of the mid noughties.

Cat Malojan

(248 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 13:10

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Originally posted by Healy52007:
Could be a close game. Waterford will want to bounce back after the Munster final defeat and Cork who are on fire scoring will want to keep that going.I think Cork will win this one by 2 points.Can see John Mullane calling it a day this year for some reason (shame really as he only in his early 30's).

I've been really impressed with Waterford this year. They seem to have abandoned the cautious, defensive approach employed by Fitzgerald, and reverted somewhat to the first time hurling of the early to mid 00's. Great to see Tony Browne having a stormer last Sunday - some achievement at 39 to have your direct opponent being substituted after 30 minutes. I think Waterford will beat Cork, and if they had a bit of composure in front of goal, they could have sneaked past Tipp on Sunday. They have the bit of experience, and some big game players - Moran,Brick,Mullane etc. They have every chance of beating Galway in the semis, they always do! They are probably short a couple of scoring forwards to win an all-Ireland against a Tipp or Kilkenny, but I wouldn't dismiss them either.

rebelrebel30

(8,531 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 13:32

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Originally posted by Cat Malojan:
I've been really impressed with Waterford this year. They seem to have abandoned the cautious, defensive approach employed by Fitzgerald, and reverted somewhat to the first time hurling of the early to mid 00's. Great to see Tony Browne having a stormer last Sunday - some achievement at 39 to have your direct opponent being substituted after 30 minutes. I think Waterford will beat Cork, and if they had a bit of composure in front of goal, they could have sneaked past Tipp on Sunday. They have the bit of experience, and some big game players - Moran,Brick,Mullane etc. They have every chance of beating Galway in the semis, they always do! They are probably short a couple of scoring forwards to win an all-Ireland against a Tipp or Kilkenny, but I wouldn't dismiss them either.

Impressed by them this year..they avoided relegation, barely scraped past Clare and lost by 7pts on sunday?? hmmmmmmm.......

Collig

(1,690 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 13:41

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Originally posted by Cat Malojan:
I've been really impressed with Waterford this year. They seem to have abandoned the cautious, defensive approach employed by Fitzgerald, and reverted somewhat to the first time hurling of the early to mid 00's. Great to see Tony Browne having a stormer last Sunday - some achievement at 39 to have your direct opponent being substituted after 30 minutes. I think Waterford will beat Cork, and if they had a bit of composure in front of goal, they could have sneaked past Tipp on Sunday. They have the bit of experience, and some big game players - Moran,Brick,Mullane etc. They have every chance of beating Galway in the semis, they always do! They are probably short a couple of scoring forwards to win an all-Ireland against a Tipp or Kilkenny, but I wouldn't dismiss them either.

Waterford have really got there act together alright since the disastrous opening to the league and I've been impressed by them too. Agree that they've discarded with Davey's methods and reverted back to what they're good at.

I must say though that I don't agree when you say that with a bit more composure W'ford could have snuck past Tipp. Tipp missed quite a few goal chances themselves (especially Lar and his stupid unselfish passing) but I still felt Tipp were very much in control of the 2nd half especially once Bourke got the goal.

This message has been edited - 17-jul-2012 @ 13:41

Cat Malojan

(248 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 13:49

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Originally posted by rebelrebel30:
Impressed by them this year..they avoided relegation, barely scraped past Clare and lost by 7pts on sunday?? hmmmmmmm.......

I take your point Rebel, but I feel they are definitely playing a different, better brand of hurling to what they played in the past few seasons. I know they lost by 7 points, but they lost by 21 last year, and were in the game until the last ten minutes on Sunday. Regarding relegation, I don't see the relevance here: Galway had to go to a replay to avoid relegation, and they beat the sh1te of Kilkenny two weeks ago. Waterford had to win their last three games, and they did, so they avoided relegation..don't see your point on that one.

Cat Malojan

(248 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 13:54

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Originally posted by Collig:
Waterford have really got there act together alright since the disastrous opening to the league and I've been impressed by them too. Agree that they've discarded with Davey's methods and reverted back to what they're good at.I must say though that I don't agree when you say that with a bit more composure W'ford could have snuck past Tipp. Tipp missed quite a few goal chances themselves (especially Lar and his stupid unselfish passing) but I still felt Tipp were very much in control of the 2nd half especially once Bourke got the goal.

That's why I used the word 'sneaked'..Tipp didn't finish them off, and left them in the game. If Waterford had made a better start to the second half, it could have been an interesting last few minutes. Agreed Tipp were in control, but Waterford put in a much more competitive performance to the Munster final last year or the all-Ireland semi in 2010. Waterford could beat any of reaminaing teams in the championship, bar maybye KK and Tipp, is all I'm saying.

Turenne

(1,088 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 13:54

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Originally posted by Cat Malojan:
I take your point Rebel, but I feel they are definitely playing a different, better brand of hurling to what they played in the past few seasons. I know they lost by 7 points, but they lost by 21 last year, and were in the game until the last ten minutes on Sunday. Regarding relegation, I don't see the relevance here: Galway had to go to a replay to avoid relegation, and they beat the sh1te of Kilkenny two weeks ago. Waterford had to win their last three games, and they did, so they avoided relegation..don't see your point on that one.

Waterford are looking good alright, I would say outside of Galway and Limerick Waterford have the best young players in the country, plus they have Mullane, a class above any player Cork have. Plus Waterford have had a more competitive lead in.

Ravel28

(75 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 13:57

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Jes Rebel, i know you aren't the biggest fan of waterford (i dont know what they have done to upset you) but this is a 50/50 game...

Big bearing on the game will be Connors on Horgan.. Everytime he picks him up he usually has him in his pocket but Horgan should be more mature now and will be a right tussle.. If Connors hold him then Cork are like waterford with Mullane..

A two goal salvo v wexford doesnt make you a star for o farrell and id expect Paudie Sullivan back in anyway who is very dangerous but doesnt score enough.. bit like shane walsh for waterford

Collig

(1,690 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 14:00

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Originally posted by Cat Malojan:
That's why I used the word 'sneaked'..Tipp didn't finish them off, and left them in the game. If Waterford had made a better start to the second half, it could have been an interesting last few minutes. Agreed Tipp were in control, but Waterford put in a much more competitive performance to the Munster final last year or the all-Ireland semi in 2010. Waterford could beat any of reaminaing teams in the championship, bar maybye KK and Tipp, is all I'm saying.

Agree re the performance in comparison to recent ones against Tipp and that Waterford coukld take the remainder of the teams bar Tipp and KK, I just think there was still a lot of 'ifs' and 'buts' required for Waterford to win last Sunday. That doesn't take away from their performance though.

Anyone but FF

(1,490 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 14:03

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This is going to be a very very tough game to call! From a Cork point of few im very worried about a few things in the lead up to this game.

Its the end of July and we still haven't found a full back or a center back. While I accept Chris Joyces injury was unfortunate and could happen to any team it means that Eoin Cadogan goes in there, He hasn't been overly impressive and wing back is his best position but shur he has to start at 6 now. I don't understand what the selectors are playing at with full back though, McDonnell had a bad league final but since when do we go down the road of dropping a young fella after one bad game and not giving him more chances to prove himself. Shane O Neills form is another concern, Has not had a good championship to date. The uncertainty in that full back line will cost us big time before this year is out.

Midfield looks a lot stronger now with Pa Cronin there, Our half forward line looks a lot better now with Nially Mac back, If Cian Mac and Conor Lehane could shoot straight last Sat night then Wexford would have taken an almighty pasting so hopefully they sort that out for the next day. Luke O Farrells form is a major plus as is the forward strength on our bench. However I think the workrate in our forward line eg the hooking, blocking, harrying is still a bit suspect.

Waterford have impressed me big time since the latter stages of the league. They have a serious solid spine to their team, Their half backline have been excellent to date. The aggression that they are playing with to date was missing for large parts of last year and John Mullane is still one of the top 3 forwards in the game. If they took their chances then its quiet possible they could have beaten Tipp.

At this stage its too hard to call who will win this, Id have to wait till the Cork team is named before id tip it. Its been some hurling championship to date and its only going to get better!

Collig

(1,690 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 14:06

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Originally posted by Ravel28:
Big bearing on the game will be Connors on Horgan.. Everytime he picks him up he usually has him in his pocket but Horgan should be more mature now and will be a right tussle.. If Connors hold him then Cork are like waterford with Mullane.. A two goal salvo v wexford doesnt make you a star for o farrell and id expect Paudie Sullivan back in anyway who is very dangerous but doesnt score enough.. bit like shane walsh for waterford

Indeed. Connors is a fine player and had Horgan in his pocket in 2010 alright. I felt at the time (and still do) that Cork should have moved Hoggie around, and into the half forward line if needs be, in order to get him into the game because I can't see us winning any games against top opposition if he is held.

Rebel CNC

(4,232 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 14:06

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Originally posted by Cat Malojan:
I take your point Rebel, but I feel they are definitely playing a different, better brand of hurling to what they played in the past few seasons. I know they lost by 7 points, but they lost by 21 last year, and were in the game until the last ten minutes on Sunday. Regarding relegation, I don't see the relevance here: Galway had to go to a replay to avoid relegation, and they beat the sh1te of Kilkenny two weeks ago. Waterford had to win their last three games, and they did, so they avoided relegation..don't see your point on that one.

Yeah - think Waterford looking good. They finished the league strongly after early defeats to Cork, KK and Tipp and came through a tough test against Clare.

Except for some woeful freetaking they could have beaten Tipp or at least taken it right to the wire.
As previous poster says, maybe Tipp could have had a couple of other goals but against that the ones they did get were avoidable - something I'm sure Ryan will be looking at in next two weeks.

My heart says Cork. My head thinks that W'ford may just have more hunger and with passage to final avoiding KK and Tipp (no disrespect to Galway) the likes of Browne, Walsh, Mullane, Kelly, etc will want to give it a right go.
As said in previous thread - one shambolic appearance in an AI final after a decade of service is little reward for players of that quality.

lovelypoint

(626 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 14:22

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Think this game has the potential to be a hell of a game, and very surprised to see it as the curtainraiser, given the likelihood of Waterford-Cork being a more keenly contested game than Limerick-Kilkenny.

Like others, I feel this will be a great game. I think the sight of the Cork jersey will be enough to bring out some of the best in Waterford, and likewise Cork will feel this Waterford team is very much there as a scalp to be taken, if they can take it. All makes for an intriguing contest.

Re: Waterford, I feel very positive about the way we are going about our business this year under new management, with the team laid out to play to what I feel is our more natural game. It will take a bit of time to bed in this new style, and more than anything I feel we need games. Cork on Sunday week will be just the sort of game we need to bring us on, and then as said, a mercurial Galway side for the winner. Maybe this year would be a bridge to far for us to be the most deadly and serious of challengers, but things are ticking along very nicely, and think we will only be stronger next year.

In any case, it is nice to see a Waterford set out with ambition. Against Tipp on Sunday, I feel we set out to open them up, with fast, direct low ball into our inside forwards, with not too many factors going against us to make it much closer. Those factors in my mind would have been the apparent lack of fitness of Shane Walsh, poor freetaking and selfish decision making by Maurice Shanahan, and poor support play for Seamus Prendergast which left him no option but to attempt to shoot which resulted in four bad wides. These may not have lead us to win on Sunday, but could see how it could have gone down to the wire, as opposed to being over as a contest with 10 minutes to go.

In all, these are all lessons to be learnt, and am looking forward to the game against Cork, and seeing how we turn out. Since the upheaval during the league, I think everything has been positive, and if we can get past Cork on Sunday week, it will bring us on a lot.

This message has been edited - 17-jul-2012 @ 14:24

The Dude

(109 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 14:31

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Delighted to see the lads back playing direct open hurling but having watched Sunday's game again, we have alot of work to do as we were caught loose around the middle a few times. Tipp missed some very scorable chances early on which could have put us in trouble if they went over.

Having said that, though, I've never felt more confident going into a game against Cork. Not disrepecting Cork in any way at all but I just feel it's the first time in recent years that the two teams have truly been 50/50. Noel Connors return from injury is a huge plus for us and we just might have a tiny bit more experience at the moment to just carry us over the line. Waterford by 2 for me. Also I don't think the winners will fear playing Galway at all.

lovelypoint

(626 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 14:34

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Originally posted by Ravel28:
id expect Paudie Sullivan back in anyway who is very dangerous but doesnt score enough.. bit like shane walsh for waterford

Would feel this is quite a harsh assessment of Shane Walsh, who I would feel is probably one of the most underestimated full forwards in the country. Shane has shown he can score against all opposition, is prepared to chase down lost causes all day, wins ball he has no right to win, and has a very keen eye for goal, with his eye for the posts increasingly prevalent. At the end of the day, what we get from Shane depends on what type of ball he gets, as give him the ball and he will get goals. In all, our most dangerous forward with Mullane.

All that said, I felt he looked unfit against Tipp, or else he would have got on the end of a lot more of the low, fast, dangerous ball that was going in. I was very surprised he was left on the pitch so long, as I felt even Kelly left in to sit around the square against Tipp would have yielded good goal chances, especially in the first half.

Ravel28

(75 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 15:24

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Ive great mass in shane myself but all the mannerism you have panned out there the same could be said about o sullivan at the other end... except he has more dash.. However shane prob takes more scoring chances as paudie tries to lay off everything..

He definitely wasnt fit sunday, what sealed it for me was his knocking the ball to feet and not getting on the end of it.. when a high ball comes in his fantastic at deflecting it into the path he is running, however on sunday he was just planting it at his feet cause he seemed cumbersome and lacked the ability to turn sharply on his feet.. So id love to know what injury he is carrying cause to me it looks like a hamstring or groin strain..

I completely disagree on Kelly however, I think he shouldn't be involved anymore and i wouldnt waste my time bring him on the next day.. He jibbed the first ball that came to him where he could have bet the corner back on to it and was straight on goal.. He topped the sh*t out of the free and then missed the resulting 65.. He hit a cowardly belt on Cummins coming out with the ball and threw a kick at another fella.. On his day Kelly was a class act and could have been one of our all time greats but from his contribution last sunday and v clare he now has become a liability and has been for the last few seasons..

Its almost like we are hoping he will come back to what he was but it aint going to happen.. Its a pity Brian o halloran (i have no idea why he pulled himself off the panel due to medical advice when he is prob training more with his club and U21)and brian sullivan arent involved as they are two forwards which i believe would make us incredibly competitive and would mean we wouldnt waste our time with kelly and give Gavin O Brien more time to develop..

This message has been edited - 17-jul-2012 @ 15:26

The Penstir

(153 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 17:20

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Originally posted by Cat Malojan:
I take your point Rebel, but I feel they are definitely playing a different, better brand of hurling to what they played in the past few seasons. I know they lost by 7 points, but they lost by 21 last year, and were in the game until the last ten minutes on Sunday. Regarding relegation, I don't see the relevance here: Galway had to go to a replay to avoid relegation, and they beat the sh1te of Kilkenny two weeks ago. Waterford had to win their last three games, and they did, so they avoided relegation..don't see your point on that one.

Let us know lads at what stage ye want us to take the bait!!
I'll check back in next week to see how many ye have hooked!!

theface2010

(3,490 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 17:29

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Originally posted by Ravel28:
I completely disagree on Kelly however, I think he shouldn't be involved anymore and i wouldnt waste my time bring him on the next day.. He jibbed the first ball that came to him where he could have bet the corner back on to it and was straight on goal.. He topped the sh*t out of the free and then missed the resulting 65.. He hit a cowardly belt on Cummins coming out with the ball and threw a kick at another fella.. On his day Kelly was a class act and could have been one of our all time greats but from his contribution last sunday and v clare he now has become a liability and has been for the last few seasons

Unfortunately, I would agree with this. Eoin's attitude was always questionable but when he was producing the goods, he was cut more slack. He has not done so for the last few seasons and his cameo on Sunday, that you have fairly accurately described, was the final nail in the coffin for me. Hopefully, he will confound me between here and September but I think other lads should be given a chance ahead of him at this stage.

rebelrebel30

(8,531 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 18:04

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Originally posted by Healy52007:
Could be a close game. Waterford will want to bounce back after the Munster final defeat and Cork who are on fire scoring will want to keep that going.I think Cork will win this one by 2 points.Can see John Mullane calling it a day this year for some reason (shame really as he only in his early 30's).

Hope we win but its going to be anyones game i think. Cork forwards look better options from 1-6 than waterford but our defence would worry me where as waterford look settled there though their young keeper could be a risk( the tipp goal was an example that hes still raw).

Cork need to keep calm heads because knowing waterford and particularly Tony Browne, Ken etc they get worked up for no other county than cork, which i assume is the case of the old master dishing out many beatings down the years which hurts them.

Still i think JBM is a better man than Michael Ryan to organise the team and i will take 3-4 pt win for the rebels.

kieran73

(566 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 18:08

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Originally posted by rebelrebel30:
.Cork need to keep calm heads because knowing waterford and particularly Tony Browne, Ken etc they get worked up for no other county than cork, which i assume is the case of the old master dishing out many beatings down the years which hurts them.

Actually you assume wrong , dont flatter yourself .

rebelrebel30

(8,531 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 18:09

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Originally posted by Ravel28:
Jes Rebel, i know you aren't the biggest fan of waterford (i dont know what they have done to upset you) but this is a 50/50 game... Big bearing on the game will be Connors on Horgan.. Everytime he picks him up he usually has him in his pocket but Horgan should be more mature now and will be a right tussle.. If Connors hold him then Cork are like waterford with Mullane.. A two goal salvo v wexford doesnt make you a star for o farrell and id expect Paudie Sullivan back in anyway who is very dangerous but doesnt score enough.. bit like shane walsh for waterford

I agree its 50/50, in my view this game could be won by the benches and on this id give the nod to cork as we have a better bench now.

rebelrebel30

(8,531 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 18:09

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Originally posted by kieran73:
Actually you assume wrong , dont flatter yourself .

I take it they just get worked up at the sight of a red jersey so.......

Collars Up

(525 Posts)

Posted: 17-Jul-2012 18:33

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what beatings are you on about? id say it was fairly 50/50 between waterford and cork through ken and tonys career, i can tell you this, waterford people from the city and east, it's the sight of the kilkenny jersey and not that rag from over the youghal bridge that stirs us!

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