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Topic: All-Ireland Hurling Semi Final - Tipperary vs Kilkenny
theblack&amber
(593 Posts)
Posted: 02-Aug-2012 15:28
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I’ll get the ball rolling on this one. So who’s going to win? I think at the moment it’s a very even call. Here’s what I reckon.

Tipperary Forwards vs Kilkenny Backs

The Kilkenny backs had a more settled look against Limerick the other day, especially when Joyce really started to play well through the middle. Tommy Walsh looked a man reborn against Limerick, Tyrrell and Murphy performing far better than they did against Galway and JJ Delaney is back offering that bit of security at FB. With Doyle in great form all year and Brian Hogan back for the match the Kilkenny defense looks to be getting back to where it was, albeit lacking the pace. On the Tipp side of this battle, Bonnar, O’Meara and O’Brien have been Tipp’s best players this year, Bonnar and O’Meara especially. All three have the work-rate and physicality to really hurt Kilkenny. The likes of Lar, Kelly, Callinane, Bourke and McGrath don’t have the same workrate as the other three mentioned, but they’re lethal, given a yard or a second within 60 yards it’s probably a point, give them a few yards and its a goal. Over all, I think it’s a fairly even matchup, slightly favouring Tipp on current form and great subs to come on.

Tipperary Midfield vs Kilkenny Midfield

The Kilkenny midfield will most likely be Rice and Fennelly, again two players that badly needed 70 minutes under their belt but who, on their day, are the best midfield duo in the country. Kilkenny probably have the physical edge in the centre of the field, but Shane McGrath is starting to produce the form of a while ago and is looking good. Ryan or Brendan Maher will most likely be McGraths partner. I’d go with Maher, he’s also getting back to his best and I feel he offers more than Ryan. Again a fairly even matchup, slightly favouring Kilkenny in my view.

Tipperary Backs vs Kilkenny Forwards

This is the deciding battle I think. In last years AIF, the Kilkenny forwards won this battle hands down. This year though there are question marks over the Kilkenny attack, most specifically the form of Power and Larkin. Richie Hogan being suspended is a big blow, though Shefflin is improving every game, Colin Fennelly is very dangerous when fit and Fogarty looked very good and dangerous against Limerick but also seems to have upped his workrate too. TJ Reid has had a very good year to date, the only game he’s played bad all year was against Galway and he wasn’t the only one to be bad that day. Regarding the Tipp backs, there are question marks there too. So far this year they’ve given up numerous chances in every game and could conceivably, had the faced more lethal opposition, have lost any of them matches. O’Mahony and Curran look like they have no pace anymore, while the corner backs have the habit of standing off the man. Big pluses are Paudie Maher who has been the best defender in the country so far in this championship, while Tom Stapleton seems to be a good solution to the number 5 problem of the last few years. Again pretty much even, but I’d give the slightest nod to Tipp here.

I get the feeling Tipp had more to them than what they were showing in Munster while I think Kilkenny have got the kick in the ar*e they needed against Galway. Ultimately, this will be decided by the Tipp backs. If they close down the Kilkenny forwards, deny them the goal chances and get their great deliveries into the forwards, Tipp will win. If they give Kilkenny the space and opportunities Tipp have been coughing up this year, and if Kilkenny forwards close them down as much as they did in last years final and prevent the passing from defense, Kilkenny will win.

I think though the Tipp defense will be unbelievably determined to make up for last year, and for that to be the difference. Tipp to win, only just but after being pushed to very pin of their collar and beyond, but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least to see Kilkenny make it 7 finals in a row.
This message has been edited - 02-aug-2012 @ 15:30
absent
(1,452 Posts)
Posted: 03-Aug-2012 12:32
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I expect this to be a very close encounter and possibly be the game of the year,Tipp to prevail by a point or two.
KOCat
(18 Posts)
Posted: 03-Aug-2012 15:03
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Good post. I would add (as mentioned elsewhere on this site) that the height of the Tipp FB line vs. the KK FF line will be a factor, particularly now since Hogan will be missing.

Also, Tipp have been living on the edge in the FB line this year offering everyone they played plenty of goal chances and kK have the firepower and experience to take advantage of this in a manner that WD & LK could not.

On the other hand KK are starting to look hit and miss in terms of performances and don't have the FW's bench that Tipp have. Also KK fwds are struggling to win primary possession and Larkin and Power struggling to find form.

Should be a cracking match, C'mon the Cats!
tipptop
(606 Posts)
Posted: 03-Aug-2012 15:31
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On the face of it, Tipp need to repeat their 2010 AIF Form. I don't think anythink anything less willdo. Tipp need to find their goal scoring tough and intensity to match the KK effort.

It is also vital that Tipp avoid letting KK get out in front early like last KK did last year. Tipp need to avoid having to chase the gameDeclan have a lot to work on before the 19th. That said I think it will be close, not prepared to put my head on the block this far out.
seoulofgaa
(365 Posts)
Posted: 03-Aug-2012 22:24
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Tipp might do it. Simular to Canning's performance against Offally, Tipp beat Waterford by 5 points with Lar Corbett not scoring at all and not taking 1 or 2 goal chances. If he up's his performance to something resembling his 2010 form then Tipp may advancwe to an All Ireland final where he would improve further and making the comeback of the year in beating Galway/Cork all by himself.
However he would have to improve his form against Kilkenny first!
kavvie
(289 Posts)
Posted: 03-Aug-2012 22:34
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id have a feeling that tipp will win bt 5pts plus.as bad as they were last yr they were only beaten by a goal.kk looks as if father time has caught up on them.this might be they game that proves it.and they the best ever hurling team ever in their pomp..around 2008/9.
lower the mowing bar
(16 Posts)
Posted: 04-Aug-2012 07:14
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Very hard to guage where both teams are at, Kk appear to be off their dominant best. The manner of their defeat against Galway was very un-Kilkenny, beaten all ends up in the physicality stakes. They have the appearance of a team that have been asked to go back to the well too many times. They're certainly not as cohesive a team as in previous seasons, Limerick's challenge fell away badly and ultimately they didn't have enough power in the forwards to really hurt Kk. I suspect Kk's inner confidence has been dealt a critical blow by Galway this year, fair enough if they only had to raise their game once more for a rematch with Galway... talk about motivation! However, having to get over arch rivals Tipp just to get the rematch is a major ask. Sorry if I appear to be writing off Cork's chances there!

Having said all that, Tipp have scraped through Munster barely doing enough in each game, only showing brief glimpses of their 2010 form. On the plus side, they are showing steady improvement & digging out late wins while playing poorly. I'm not sure if Tipp have actually settled on their best formation, with 2-3 positions still up for grabs.

Which team can show most improvement? I'm going for Tipp... Lar Corbett has had a couple of games to settle his radar, Bonner Maher is playing out of his skin, Buggy O'Meara has improved massively from last year.
Then again... underestimate the Cats are your peril, class all over the pitch. What a game to look forward to!!!!
TippTed
(53 Posts)
Posted: 04-Aug-2012 10:05
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Originally posted by KOCat:
Good post. I would add (as mentioned elsewhere on this site) that the height of the Tipp FB line vs. the KK FF line will be a factor, particularly now since Hogan will be missing. Also, Tipp have been living on the edge in the FB line this year offering everyone they played plenty of goal chances and kK have the firepower and experience to take advantage of this in a manner that WD & LK could not.On the other hand KK are starting to look hit and miss in terms of performances and don't have the FW's bench that Tipp have. Also KK fwds are struggling to win primary possession and Larkin and Power struggling to find form.Should be a cracking match, C'mon the Cats!

Should Richie Hogan be charged with assault for his cowardly attack on the Limerick player?
Cré Na Cille
(899 Posts)
Posted: 04-Aug-2012 11:19
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Originally posted by TippTed:
Should Richie Hogan be charged with assault for his cowardly attack on the Limerick player?

No
hurling fan
(758 Posts)
Posted: 04-Aug-2012 11:28
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Originally posted by TippTed:
Should Richie Hogan be charged with assault for his cowardly attack on the Limerick player?

When was any player ever "charged"? If Wadding had been doing his job he would have awarded a free to Hogan for the "cowardly" attacks on him. BTW - remind me if Benny Dunne was ever "charged"?????
hurling fan
(758 Posts)
Posted: 04-Aug-2012 11:28
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Originally posted by TippTed:
Should Richie Hogan be charged with assault for his cowardly attack on the Limerick player?

When was any player ever "charged"? If Wadding had been doing his job he would have awarded a free to Hogan for the "cowardly" attacks on him. BTW - remind me if Benny Dunne was ever "charged"?????
phildafluter
(54 Posts)
Posted: 04-Aug-2012 19:27
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Originally posted by hurling fan:
When was any player ever "charged"? If Wadding had been doing his job he would have awarded a free to Hogan for the "cowardly" attacks on him. BTW - remind me if Benny Dunne was ever "charged"?????

A Jaysus don't let those wind up merchants get on ur case that easily . They are only trying to get a rise out of ya !! To be honest this should be game of the year . It really comes down to which team hits form on the day . I'm expecting a huge performance from tipp. I think they havnt had to come out of second gear in Munster . As for Kk the big question is can coady bring them to the boil again in time. I recon coady will have to have Kk ticking over nicely to have any chance . For me I give Tipp the nod only assuming Dec has them perfect on the day, and it's hard for KK to keep reaching the required standard. Regardless of the result , iv no doubt the winner will win the AI
Shockcat
(136 Posts)
Posted: 06-Aug-2012 11:56
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Originally posted by TippTed:
Should Richie Hogan be charged with assault for his cowardly attack on the Limerick player?

Ya big Wendy.
Rush
(155 Posts)
Posted: 06-Aug-2012 12:10
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Originally posted by TippTed:
Should Richie Hogan be charged with assault for his cowardly attack on the Limerick player?

Really..!

Benny Dunne should be on 'Death Row' for his attempt at decapitating Tommy Walsh, it's a good thing Tommy is the man he is and lept straight back up...
carryharry
(4,804 Posts)
Posted: 06-Aug-2012 12:34
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Back to the thread lads!!!!!

As a Tipp fan i really am in 2 minds over this game.

One part of me thinks the fact that Tipperary are finishing games so well this year is a serious plus for us. Our bench are making an impact every day out, players are literally busting at the seems to try and make the first 15 which is brilliant.
Management too look like they have really putting their own stamp on the team, considering what went before them this was vital. They seem to be making all the right calls so far and being realistic most of our big game players are under performing also. If Lar, Eoin and Seamie cut loose then Tipp have a serious chance.

For all the positives of above, the feeling of doubt over our full back line remains. Last year it looked rock solid until the final,yet this year it has looked shakey from early on in the championship which is a major worry coming into a game with KK. Ok people might think KK are waning slightly but imo that talk is way off. KK know when to peak, know when to do enough and when to turn it on. For Tipp to win this game, we need our half back line to dominate and midfield to at least break even.

If that happens then Tipp have a serious chance, if not then i fear a hiding is on the cards.

Do people think PP has the odds right btw? Tipp at 6/4 is a tempting bet imo. Should this game be an evens price??
Hitch
(3,644 Posts)
Posted: 06-Aug-2012 12:36
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Tipp with a slight advantage I reckon, but it could go either way!
tipptop
(606 Posts)
Posted: 07-Aug-2012 08:10
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Harry, while I'd have to agree that the strong finishes to games and the strength of the bench have been great to see this year, I'm worried about the fact that we have tended to start slowly in games.

That also happened in the AIF last year and we never recovered. I feel we have to be at the pace of the game from the start the next day.
Blanco
(7,909 Posts)
Posted: 07-Aug-2012 14:44
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Originally posted by tipptop:
I'm worried about the fact that we have tended to start slowly in games.That also happened in the AIF last year and we never recovered. I feel we have to be at the pace of the game from the start the next day.

The slow starts have to be a worry , they are not just one offs they seem to be a trend going back as far as this time last year, in the semi final last year we got a very quick opportunistic goal against the run of play at the very start but then Dublin must of hit 5 or 6 pts without reply from Tipp , we allowed KK hit 6 unanswered at the start of last years final, and this year we are allowing nearly every team we play build up at least a 4 or 5 pt lead before we start to hurl at all.

We have to cut this out , we are getting away with it against most teams but the likes of KK or Galway(on their day) will punish you for this and not allow you back in.
tipptop
(606 Posts)
Posted: 07-Aug-2012 15:01
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That's the thing, Blanco. We have to get a good start and settle quickly. There is no point in ending up in a position where you have to chase the game

The start doesn't have to be spectacular, just steady. Keep the scoreboard ticking over and hopefully an early goal. If this happens our strong finishes might stand to us.
theblack&amber
(593 Posts)
Posted: 07-Aug-2012 15:04
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Originally posted by Blanco:
The slow starts have to be a worry , they are not just one offs they seem to be a trend going back as far as this time last year, in the semi final last year we got a very quick opportunistic goal against the run of play at the very start but then Dublin must of hit 5 or 6 pts without reply from Tipp , we allowed KK hit 6 unanswered at the start of last years final, and this year we are allowing nearly every team we play build up at least a 4 or 5 pt lead before we start to hurl at all.We have to cut this out , we are getting away with it against most teams but the likes of KK or Galway(on their day) will punish you for this and not allow you back in.

On the flip side, Tipperary have finished out games stronger than anyone else this year, they hit 1-10 or something like that in 15/20 mins against Limerick, finished very strongly with 14 men against Cork and got the scores and kept the defense tight enough to keep Waterford at bay.

I wouldn't worry too much about the slow start, I think the sight of the Kilkenny jersey will ensure Tipp will race out of the blocks, and you do get the feeling like Tipp have been gearing up for Kilkenny since the start of the summer.

The biggest worry from a Tipp point of view is the space they've been coughing up in the backs, and the closing down efforts by the backs (they're standing off their man a bit too much and allowing them to turn, shown especially against Cork and Waterford). I think if the Tipp backs sort out that problem and deny the Kilkenny forwards the time and space then I think Tipp have enough up front and on the bench to ensure it will be Tipp in the AI final. Just.
glasandbán
(2,046 Posts)
Posted: 07-Aug-2012 15:10
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Will Tipp reach the same level intensity they have tended to reserve for AI finals v Kk?

Could the fact that kk have been beaten well already or that this is only a semi filter in and lead to just a tiny touch of complacence? I think in this game the sight of the Tipp jerseys will spur kk more than the other way around.
inspector 71
(31 Posts)
Posted: 07-Aug-2012 22:22
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Hear that we had a great training camp over the bank holiday weekend in Carton house.

Cody has the lads fired up.

Same as when tore Tipp apart in AI final last year.

Lazy Tipp will not live with our intensity, we will win all the dirty ball, all the hooks and blocks, in short we will have all the ball. Tipp will live on scraps.

Come on the Cats.
theblack&amber
(593 Posts)
Posted: 12-Aug-2012 18:12
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So now we know its Galway waiting for Tipp and Kilkenny.

One thing is for certain, whoever wins next Sunday is going to have a serious bit of preparation done for the AI final, and they're going to need it considering Galway's form.
Blanco
(7,909 Posts)
Posted: 12-Aug-2012 18:26
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Originally posted by theblack&amber:
So now we know its Galway waiting for Tipp and Kilkenny.One thing is for certain, whoever wins next Sunday is going to have a serious bit of preparation done for the AI final, and they're going to need it considering Galway's form.

All three teams left will feel they have it in them to win it , should be some battle next week.
mandarin
(412 Posts)
Posted: 12-Aug-2012 18:43
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Inspector 71,a prize gobs**te.That arrogance saw you savaged by Galway.Will ye ever learn?

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