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Topic: Ruairi Quinn
dubliner 2 (10,823 Posts)	Posted: 16-Aug-2012 17:05	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dubliner 2 (10,823 Posts)	Yesterday he stated that bonus points for Maths would have no real impact on college applications. Today he's to review the issue. Anyone involved in education could have told you that giving an extra 25 points to anyone who passed Higher Level Maths was a crazy decision. A1 (90-100%) or D3 (40-44%). Made no difference. 25 points all round. There will be some very -------ed off students next week. They tend to look at last year's points as a guide and some who got in or around what they were looking for they may well find themselves losing out because someone who got 41% in maths is getting an extra twenty five points.
bally boy (62 Posts)	Posted: 16-Aug-2012 18:08	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
bally boy (62 Posts)	i take it you didnt do honours maths
communityman (92 Posts)	Posted: 16-Aug-2012 18:44	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
communityman (92 Posts)	Dubliner 2 said: 'Yesterday he (Quinn) stated that bonus points for Maths would have no real impact on college applications. Today he's to review the issue.' If Dubliner 2 is correct and Quinn said the above, then Quinn must be some tulip. Surely the whole idea of the extra 25 points must have been to discriminate in favour of those that took Honours Maths in the context of getting more points for college applications. Prior to the points system the double Honour for Maths and for Irish, vis a vis getting a scholarship to college, also applied regardless of whether you got a 'C' or an 'A'.
dubliner 2 (10,823 Posts)	Posted: 16-Aug-2012 18:57	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dubliner 2 (10,823 Posts)	He said it several times yesterday on various media outlets.
T_de_B (3,147 Posts)	Posted: 16-Aug-2012 19:31	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
T_de_B (3,147 Posts)	Originally posted by dubliner 2: He said it several times yesterday on various media outlets. Come on D2. Lay off Ruairi. Probably the only man in Ireland rich enough to be a real socialist.
northsideboy (4 Posts)	Posted: 17-Aug-2012 12:55	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
northsideboy (4 Posts)	Quinn is dangerous as a Minister of Education. He thinks he knows a lot and is more ideologically driven than his predecessors. This can be good but I doubt it. He's a master of spin, hence his appointment of the Indo's education editor. Too much political ideology in Britain from the 1970s onwards has nearly destroyed the British educational system and I fear that the system will buckle under bureaucracy, mounds of paper work, syllabi that may look well on paper but useless in practise and a demoralised teaching profession. Ultimately the students suffer.
N16 (1,724 Posts)	Posted: 17-Aug-2012 12:59	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
N16 (1,724 Posts)	Originally posted by northsideboy: Quinn is dangerous as a Minister of Education. He thinks he knows a lot and is more ideologically driven than his predecessors. This can be good but I doubt it. He's a master of spin, hence his appointment of the Indo's education editor.Too much political ideology in Britain from the 1970s onwards has nearly destroyed the British educational system and I fear that the system will buckle under bureaucracy, mounds of paper work, syllabi that may look well on paper but useless in practise and a demoralised teaching profession. Ultimately the students suffer. My wife is the deputy head of the English dept. in her school here in London. She could give you an insight into what you just said and back it up. I wouldnt wish that job on anyone. Idiots of civil servants and government ministers etc going round with ideas on how things should be, without any experience of teaching or any connection with reality. A shambles of an education system.
An Carta Bui (277 Posts)	Posted: 17-Aug-2012 13:51	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
An Carta Bui (277 Posts)	Originally posted by northsideboy: Quinn is dangerous as a Minister of Education. He thinks he knows a lot and is more ideologically driven than his predecessors. This can be good but I doubt it. He's a master of spin, hence his appointment of the Indo's education editor.Too much political ideology in Britain from the 1970s onwards has nearly destroyed the British educational system and I fear that the system will buckle under bureaucracy, mounds of paper work, syllabi that may look well on paper but useless in practise and a demoralised teaching profession. Ultimately the students suffer. Quinn has been supping out of the public trough for a long time now and little to show for it. Himself, Spring and Howlin played hardball with ALbert Reynolds over the AG case. They won the battle and lost the war as they were out of power during the years that money was flying around the place. Now they are back and haven't a bob to spend
manfromdelmonte (2,268 Posts)	Posted: 17-Aug-2012 14:39	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
manfromdelmonte (2,268 Posts)	Ah Ruairí... Went to a private fee paying primary and secondary school. As did all his kids. Some socialist! He has changed his mind at least 4 or 5 times on various policy decisions since becoming minister. I don't think he has a grasp of what he's doing in the job. It cannot be that hard to be minister of Ed. of all the departments it has other bodies making policy recommendations and all you have to do is implement some of them. At a time when multi national companies here are bemoaning the lack of graduates with language skills, Ruairí has abolished the modern languages initiative in primary schools - so schools are not meant to teach foreign languages anymore, and can no longer get some funding or courses for teachers who want to teach a bit of french/spanish/german etc to 5th/6th class kids.
dubliner 2 (10,823 Posts)	Posted: 17-Aug-2012 14:49	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dubliner 2 (10,823 Posts)	Originally posted by northsideboy: Quinn is dangerous as a Minister of Education. He thinks he knows a lot and is more ideologically driven than his predecessors. This can be good but I doubt it. He's a master of spin, hence his appointment of the Indo's education editor.Too much political ideology in Britain from the 1970s onwards has nearly destroyed the British educational system and I fear that the system will buckle under bureaucracy, mounds of paper work, syllabi that may look well on paper but useless in practise and a demoralised teaching profession. Ultimately the students suffer. I would agree with all of the above. It seems that the Brits are beginning to realise this and make changes whiole we follow on doing what they were doing twenty years ago despite the obvious fact that it didn't work. I suspect there'll be some craic when the new Junior Cert comes in which, in my view, will be a total disaster and something that parents will be dead against once they realsie what it means.
manfromdelmonte (2,268 Posts)	Posted: 22-Aug-2012 11:26	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
manfromdelmonte (2,268 Posts)	http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/schools-ability-to-field-teams-hit-due-to-cutbacks-204903.html Education cutbacks have severely affected secondary schools’ ability to field sports teams with other extra-curricular activities also being adversely affected, teachers’ unions have said. ******************** And yet Ruairi, we, the tax payers are giving over €100 million to private schools to pay the salaries of their teaching staff While the private schools can then use all of the fees received from parents to put on extra curricular activities, build facilities and employ extra academic staff in those schools
manfromdelmonte (2,268 Posts)	Posted: 04-Sep-2012 17:48	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
manfromdelmonte (2,268 Posts)	anybody see Ruairi and his department of mis-education last night? Quinn came across as a puppet, surrounded by nitwits and advisors. Who are well paid and costing the taxpayers money. He didn't seem to grasp what he is doing They had more concern about how the decisions they were making (and then reversing!!) would affect the TDs in those affected areas. rather than the effect on schools, pupils, parents and teachers. If that is how all departments are run then its no wonder the country is in a mess.
dubliner 2 (10,823 Posts)	Posted: 04-Sep-2012 17:54	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dubliner 2 (10,823 Posts)	He's a qualified architect if I'm not mistaken. What would he know about education? On a side issue I wonder is this the year the G.A.A. finally gets hit in schools. I've been in touch with a number of schools trying to get games, which are starting next week, organised and not one is ready to go and some said they have no one to take teams. Worrying times.
Larkin (4,404 Posts)	Posted: 04-Sep-2012 18:21	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Larkin (4,404 Posts)	Originally posted by manfromdelmonte: anybody see Ruairi and his department of mis-education last night?Quinn came across as a puppet, surrounded by nitwits and advisors. Who are well paid and costing the taxpayers money. He didn't seem to grasp what he is doingThey had more concern about how the decisions they were making (and then reversing!!) would affect the TDs in those affected areas. rather than the effect on schools, pupils, parents and teachers.If that is how all departments are run then its no wonder the country is in a mess. Had little enough time for him anyway but a couple of weeks ago I heard him praise BOI and Richie Boucher for providing loans to students at 10.5% APR. Gobschite.
Paul Ryan (39 Posts)	Posted: 04-Sep-2012 18:49	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Paul Ryan (39 Posts)	Originally posted by dubliner 2: He's a qualified architect if I'm not mistaken. What would he know about education? Prefabs
Dead dog society (82 Posts)	Posted: 04-Sep-2012 20:23	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Dead dog society (82 Posts)	I liked his brown leather trench coat.
Roberto Jordan (825 Posts)	Posted: 04-Sep-2012 20:25	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Roberto Jordan (825 Posts)	Originally posted by dubliner 2: He's a qualified architect if I'm not mistaken. What would he know about education?On a side issue I wonder is this the year the G.A.A. finally gets hit in schools. I've been in touch with a number of schools trying to get games, which are starting next week, organised and not one is ready to go and some said they have no one to take teams.Worrying times. I dont have kids but an genuinely worried about changes in the education system. Not becauase of GAA or sport( though that is sad) but rather the consistent dumbing down and the creeping progress of project work and interviews into assessment and selection .....both of which are good ideas in a fair, open, integrated society but not in one as class structured, uneven and corrupt as ours...... I can only go on what I read, what my brother who is a teacher tells me and compare to my eductaion..... While primary secondary and third level have different objetcives and methods my own experience was that primary ( for what it tryed to achieve) was excellent, my own secodnary education was very very good but third level was pretty awful.....post graduate work and professional liason with thrid level has not improved this opinion...whether that is due to funding I do not know .....but it seems to me that as I moved from a very very traditionally run country primary school through to third level where one is, I assume, at the cutting edge of learning the experience disimproved and there were more and more instances of of tings which were quite clealry "good ideas" rather than tried and trusted methods.... Too many of us deign to believe that we everything about teaching base don having been a studnet but I am inclined to be sceptical about change in eductaion simply because there are only so many wayst to teach & learn and changes to exams wont solve for porblems that are most likely societal....if that means falling grades, so be it......at least those grades/ leaving certificates/ degree/doctorates will mean something...unlike the direction we are going whereby a 2020 degree will be to a 2000 degree as a $10,000 salary today is to a $10,000 salary in 1912!! ( if you follow..)
Deise Doggy Dogg (2,065 Posts)	Posted: 04-Sep-2012 20:30	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Deise Doggy Dogg (2,065 Posts)	Originally posted by Paul Ryan: Prefabs ZING
The Jedi (214 Posts)	Posted: 04-Sep-2012 21:11	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
The Jedi (214 Posts)	Originally posted by dubliner 2: He's a qualified architect if I'm not mistaken. What would he know about education? He knows more than 85% of my teachers in primary and secondary education. My English teacher in Inter-Cert once looked down and told the class that the optician told him he had the eyesight of a 20 year old. Spotting the mistake, I told him I knew a half blind 20 year old. He sent me home...good days... D2, many of your contemporaries go on to make truly awful politicians... This message has been edited - 04-sep-2012 @ 21:17
manfromdelmonte (2,268 Posts)	Posted: 04-Sep-2012 21:25	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
manfromdelmonte (2,268 Posts)	I don't think too many of us teachers would argue about teachers making poor politicians Maybe Jedi, you were just a little prcik when you were younger? most kids want to learn, and I find that many of the ones who went of their way to be messers in school, ended up as wasters in adult life. I wouldn't tar all teachers with the experience you had. This message has been edited - 04-sep-2012 @ 21:25
The Jedi (214 Posts)	Posted: 04-Sep-2012 22:13	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
The Jedi (214 Posts)	Originally posted by manfromdelmonte: Jedi, you were just a little prcik when you were younger? most kids want to learn, and I find that many of the ones who went of their way to be messers in school, ended up as wasters in adult life. Maybe you are a bit highly strung and need to relax? If you read my post I am saying, in respnse to D2's assertion that Ruari Quinn hasn't a clue, that he is more intelligent than most of my former teachers. My simple example was a trip down memory lane for me but in this case I wasn't 'messing', I was correcting. A good teacher would have accepted his mistake. And you can call me Dr Jedi. Good day Sir!
manfromdelmonte (2,268 Posts)	Posted: 05-Sep-2012 08:12	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
manfromdelmonte (2,268 Posts)	Intelligence does not, a teacher make
Speebs (1,644 Posts)	Posted: 05-Sep-2012 12:04	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Speebs (1,644 Posts)	I have 3 kids in primary school. Fortunately, they appear to have good to excellent academic ability based on the assessment tests carried out each year from 1st class on. The school they are in is fairly well run and, as primary school goes, it is very well equipped with Indoor Hall, Library and computer rooms etc. My kids are surprising me every day with regard to the amount of knowledge they acquire about the type of Window Applications that many adults struggle with in their workplaces. It is great to see and their Teachers deserve credit. However, it only takes one poor Teacher at primary level and the children are playing catch up. My middle kid had a very poor teacher in senior infants leading to her 1st class teacher to be overheard reflecting on how much additional work was needed to bring them back to an acceptable standard for the level they were in. He did a sterling job in doing so and turned around that class. My big worry with all teaching though is not so much the facilities and the teachers but it is that Children aren't being challenged in ways that makes them think for themselves and also that I (or the Mrs) am having to be too involved in helping them with their homework - A little is good but when you are almost have to re-teach them because the teacher "didnt have time" to go over an explanation then there is something wrong. The point of rant therefore is that Children and People can acquire knowledge at any point in their lives and certain children and People can consume this knowledge at faster rates but are we truly teaching our children how to think for themselves?
Paul Ryan (39 Posts)	Posted: 05-Sep-2012 12:26	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Paul Ryan (39 Posts)	They'd be better off when leaving primary if, to give just one example, they knew their tables rather than any 'creative' Educate Together hippy "ethos" merde.
manfromdelmonte (2,268 Posts)	Posted: 05-Sep-2012 16:20	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
manfromdelmonte (2,268 Posts)	Originally posted by Paul Ryan: They'd be better off when leaving primary if, to give just one example, they knew their tables rather than any 'creative' Educate Together hippy "ethos" merde. rote learning can be good. and useful. why shouldn't parents spend time on the kids' homework?? they are the primary educators of the kids. the kids don't have to be sent to school. teach them everything at home!

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