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Topic: Páirc Uí Chaoimh -white elephant?
glasandbán (2,046 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 13:46	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
glasandbán (2,046 Posts)	So apparently the plan to redevelop PUC is to turn it into a modern 45,000 fully seated stadium. What's the point? This is completely over the top and unnecessary. Do we really need another big stadium in munster? In Ireland even? Attendances appear to be dwindling at the moment but even allowing for a resurgence in years to come how many times a year will this stadium see 30k? Once, twice? Seems a colossal waste of money to me. What do ye think? This message has been edited - 18-aug-2012 @ 15:13
ChewingGum (75 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 14:42	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
ChewingGum (75 Posts)	But shur isnt it keeping Frank as overlord for another while til its completed
carryharry (4,804 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 14:48	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
carryharry (4,804 Posts)	A County the size of Cork deserves a stadium of that size imo. The infrastructure from Tipperary/Waterford is pretty good so Cork is a necessity as a venue for neutral games. If they keep a steep bowl type design then an all seater stadium sounds good to me.
glasandbán (2,046 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 14:54	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
glasandbán (2,046 Posts)	Originally posted by carryharry: A County the size of Cork deserves a stadium of that size imo. Whaaat? It's not a d*ck measuring contest! There is no way there are enough matches in Munster to justify another stadium of that size!
Hold that Line (3,117 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 14:55	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Hold that Line (3,117 Posts)	Originally posted by carryharry: A County the size of Cork deserves a stadium of that size imo. An all-seater stadium almost as big as the Aviva? Seems like overegging the pudding a little.
carryharry (4,804 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 14:57	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
carryharry (4,804 Posts)	Originally posted by glasandbán: Whaaat? It's not a dck measuring contest! There is no way there are enough matches in Munster to justify another stadium of that size! Did i say it was?????????? Cork is the largest dual county in the country. Ye all moan like fcuk about the place as it is, yet when plans are afoot to do it up ye complain. Dck measuring contest me hole!
kilkennycat2004 (Power User)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 15:03	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
kilkennycat2004 (Power User)	Originally posted by carryharry: A County the size of Cork deserves a stadium of that size imo.The infrastructure from Tipperary/Waterford is pretty good so Cork is a necessity as a venue for neutral games.If they keep a steep bowl type design then an all seater stadium sounds good to me. Cork needs a decent stadium. Hope its something modern like Thomond Park on a bigger scale. There was a time where the county hurling final had 30,000 crowds down there so hopefully the new stadium will regenerate interest in club activity as well as inter county. Badly needed.
greendolphin (2,177 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 15:04	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
greendolphin (2,177 Posts)	You tell them Harry. We can all agree the pairc needs an overall. Making it a 45,000 seater makes good sense in the long run. We are always going to have big championship games here and the revenue lost due to a smaller stadium would far outnumber all monies spent on a remodel. First project, the men's jacks. Ffs!
South Limerick Referee (16,613 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 15:05	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
South Limerick Referee (16,613 Posts)	There was a great topic on this last year that I cannot find, someone probably said something stupid and it got deleted. Anyhow I think it said that Cork had €10 million in the bank and it went through was the cost of a 60,000 seater stadium would be in comparison to a 45,000 stadium. I think given the economic climate, Cork need to look at their €10 million and see what they can get for it. As far as I remember it cost €13 million for three sides of the Gaelic Grounds. If Cork opted for two seated stands and perhaps two covered terraces in a bowl format it might not be a bad option. I think open seating is a complete waste of time in the Irish climate.
glasandbán (2,046 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 15:06	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
glasandbán (2,046 Posts)	I've no moan about Cork and there's no question the stadium needs a bit of refurbishment but it has always been odd to me the number of stadiums in the GAA. You can probably count on your hands the amount of times the gaelic grounds in Limerick has been full since it was completed a few years ago. There's 6 counties in Munster. How many matches a year will attract 30,000 plus? How many of those will be held in PUC? It's nothing to with Cork, "deserving" has nothing to do with it either, it's just not necessary and is unlikely to pay for itself long term. Money could could surely be better used to provide gyms, hurling walls, pitch improvements for clubs.
Turenne (1,088 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 15:08	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Turenne (1,088 Posts)	Its a complete and utter waste of money, especially considering our development squads are completely underfunded, but typical of Cork GAA in general. A joke of an organisation.
33andcounting (195 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 15:17	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
33andcounting (195 Posts)	whatever about the stadium, the playing surface badly needs some work. players are in danger of drowning.
rebelrebel30 (8,531 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 15:22	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
rebelrebel30 (8,531 Posts)	Originally posted by glasandbán: So apparently the plan to redevelop PUC is to turn it into a modern 45,000 fully seated stadium. What's the point? This is completely over the top and unnecessary. Do we really need another big stadium in munster? In Ireland even? Attendances appear to be dwindling at the moment but even allowing for a resurgence in years to come how many times a year will this stadium see 30k? Once, twice? Seems a colossal waste of money to me.What do ye think? Your damned if you do your damned if you dont..all year ive listened to lads giving out about the facilites etc yet when plans are afoot to redevelop it some are still not happy. a couple of things.. 1) Surely the white elephants are the counties who went ahead and built grounds when they know they never will fill them or have rare success to generate the cash, eg Limerick. That should never have got the go ahead, its teams rarely are successful or attact enough support. 2) Cork GAA is financially in a better place than i would say the majority of other counties and would have a fair size war chest to do redevelopment so that shouldnt be a problem. 3) I think the cork patrons who plough enough into the GAA deserve a little bit of comfort watching their home games, its the least i and many others want. 4) Cork arugably by being a dual county in munster has the capacity to attract the best crowds as its rivalry with Kerry in football and Tipp in hurling are the biggest and most consisent crowd pullers on a home and away basis. No other fixture in hurling or football will consisently beat the crowd these fixtures bring in to the GAA.
rebelrebel30 (8,531 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 15:24	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
rebelrebel30 (8,531 Posts)	Originally posted by 33andcounting: whatever about the stadium, the playing surface badly needs some work. players are in danger of drowning. Thats rubbish, plenty of players who actually played on it commented that the surface is very good. Tipp hurlers have said it even D O Se compared it to croker. Its an old myth at this stage about the pitch. We had 300% of our yearly rain this summer in cork any pitch is bound to cut up with that rainfall totals, dublin and further up the country has been drier than Cork.
rebelrebel30 (8,531 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 15:26	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
rebelrebel30 (8,531 Posts)	Originally posted by Hold that Line: An all-seater stadium almost as big as the Aviva?Seems like overegging the pudding a little. I suppose the wider picture needs to be looked at, its the 2nd biggest area in population and economic activity in the republic after dublin with nearly 1/2 million in the county, a good stadium can be used for concerts etc.
Bobbys blanket (241 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 15:42	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Bobbys blanket (241 Posts)	Sounds good to me. Cork as mentioned because of home and away agreements with Tipp, Limerick and Kerry is the one county that can draw over 30k on a semi regular basis. Its all well and good saying to build a 30k stadium but people will be up in arms then when they cant get a ticket for first round of Cork Tipp in a few years. Plus, has anyone actually done the workings on how much more a 45k stadium will cost in comparison to a 30k stadium. There was some genius on Rebelgaa a while back saying if a 45k stadium cost 60million a 30k stadium would only cost 40million (i.e apportioned the cost pro rata with the capacity) which clearly is not accurate. A lot of costs e.g planning, demolition costs landscapping etc should be the same for either sized stadium I would think? One thing though, for god sake have cover over all the seats in the stadium and not having a huge amount of people sitting in the rain like in the "greatest stadium in the world" up in Dublin!
Yojimbo (13,949 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 15:47	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Yojimbo (13,949 Posts)	Originally posted by glasandbán: So apparently the plan to redevelop PUC is to turn it into a modern 45,000 fully seated stadium. What's the point? This is completely over the top and unnecessary. Do we really need another big stadium in munster? In Ireland even? Attendances appear to be dwindling at the moment but even allowing for a resurgence in years to come how many times a year will this stadium see 30k? Once, twice? Seems a colossal waste of money to me.What do ye think? Cork needs, and deserves, a top stadium Simple as!
South Limerick Referee (16,613 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 15:48	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
South Limerick Referee (16,613 Posts)	I think Philip Browne said that the time of the Aviva that there was relatively little in the cost of a 35,000 capacity stadium and a 50,000 stadium, but that when you went above 50,000 it involved extra tiers and therefore the costs escalated beyond that point.
South Limerick Referee (16,613 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 15:51	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
South Limerick Referee (16,613 Posts)	Cork is different though in that they get bigger attendances for club games, and at the moment they cannot sit in comfort to watch a club game. They would have greater domestic use for stadiums than us. However in terms of intercounty games, you are looking at Cork vs Kerry in football and Cork vs Tipperary in hurling mainly, with the occasional home game against Limerick. Tipperary vs Clare will always be in Limerick now, and Limerick vs Waterford will always be in Thurles. Originally posted by glasandbán: I've no moan about Cork and there's no question the stadium needs a bit of refurbishment but it has always been odd to me the number of stadiums in the GAA. You can probably count on your hands the amount of times the gaelic grounds in Limerick has been full since it was completed a few years ago. There's 6 counties in Munster. How many matches a year will attract 30,000 plus? How many of those will be held in PUC? It's nothing to with Cork, "deserving" has nothing to do with it either, it's just not necessary and is unlikely to pay for itself long term. Money could could surely be better used to provide gyms, hurling walls, pitch improvements for clubs.
33andcounting (195 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 16:00	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
33andcounting (195 Posts)	Originally posted by rebelrebel30: Thats rubbish, plenty of players who actually played on it commented that the surface is very good. Tipp hurlers have said it even D O Se compared it to croker. Its an old myth at this stage about the pitch. We had 300% of our yearly rain this summer in cork any pitch is bound to cut up with that rainfall totals, dublin and further up the country has been drier than Cork. the only championship match i saw this year where there was surface water on the pitch was the munster u-21 1/4 final in PUC.
seanie (1,079 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 16:42	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
seanie (1,079 Posts)	Originally posted by Turenne: Its a complete and utter waste of money, especially considering our development squads are completely underfunded, but typical of Cork GAA in general. A joke of an organisation. Correct, it is in the wrong spot, it is too big, it will never be full, it will get the same amount of games and no more then the other 3 stadia in munster, the ccb will NOT allow 'foreign ' sports inside etc This white elephant is already costing money to cash strapped development squads and other areas of cork gaa. 30,000 is all that required. How many munster championship games per year sell 45,000 tickets? A stadium liek this costs a fortune in running costs which the geniuses in charge of county boards dont seem to understand
Frankel (100 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 17:18	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Frankel (100 Posts)	The Pairc needs to be levelled and Cork with all it has contributed to the GAA deserves a stadium and one that can host games not just in Munster championship. 45,000 hits the nail on the head, all seated great although I love the terrace as the view from the terrace is the best in the country for a terrace. Hopefully it will have a modern roof suspended from the back of the stand and not like Semple. Well overdue for fans and players, no more crowding in the tunnel, shambles of toilets and desperate conditions in the players dressing rooms. Cork no disrespect to the other towns and cities in Munster has more to offer if you want to make a weekend of it for a big match in terms of pubs, clubs, food etc. Walk Patrick st on a Sunday morning compared to O'Connell st in Limerick no comparison. People giving out about not needing another big ground, Cork is the biggest county in Munster, the biggest city, has contributed more to the history of the gaa then anyother county. Yes Cork needs to develop underage but a new stadium particulalry if its well designed will inspire a generation to play. Surely there'll be more John Fenton's, Joe Deane's, Orla Cotter's, Anna Geary's with a stadium to be proud of. Limerick were getting little or no matches that would be over 20k, Cork/Galway last year, Clare/Tipp munster final hurling how many more? Nice ground that it is it's probably oversized going on the attendances over the last few years. A lot of this is GAA not advertising or promoting the game in the city, Clare Limerick league final place should have been packed out, promote the game the rivalry but no not even a sign outside telling people the cost of the tickets. I'd have no problem alternating the finals between Semple and Pairc it makes sense, also if its all seater quarters and semi's could be played there least there are things to do and see and people are sociable and know the game down there compared to doing to Dublin. This message has been edited - 18-aug-2012 @ 17:20
South Limerick Referee (16,613 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 17:28	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
South Limerick Referee (16,613 Posts)	You are 100% correct there. I remember hearing the figure last year to service the running costs of Gaelic Grounds and it was frightening. Cant remember the figure though. Originally posted by seanie: A stadium like this costs a fortune in running costs which the geniuses in charge of county boards dont seem to understand
Bobbys blanket (241 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 17:29	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Bobbys blanket (241 Posts)	Originally posted by seanie: Correct, it is in the wrong spot, it is too big, it will never be full, it will get the same amount of games and no more then the other 3 stadia in munster, the ccb will NOT allow 'foreign ' sports inside etc This white elephant is already costing money to cash strapped development squads and other areas of cork gaa. 30,000 is all that required. How many munster championship games per year sell 45,000 tickets? A stadium liek this costs a fortune in running costs which the geniuses in charge of county boards dont seem to understand What exactly are the huge running costs involved in a 45k stadium over a 30k stadium? Genuinely, is this just something that you are trotting out or do you have figures? Its not Croke Park we are talking about like, this will be a stadium with a capacity of 1,500 greater than Pairc Ui Chaoimh currently has! Also, almost every munster hurling championship game 10 years ago pulled in 30k+ attendances. Cork pulled in 40k+ for a lot of theirs. Believe it or not the recession may not last forever. Cork Tipp this year pulled 30k and a state of the art stadium would certainly pull in an extra few thousand. So you want to turn away people from our games so as not to incur these phantom running costs?
seanie (1,079 Posts)	Posted: 18-Aug-2012 17:46	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
seanie (1,079 Posts)	Originally posted by Bobbys blanket: What exactly are the huge running costs involved in a 45k stadium over a 30k stadium? Genuinely, is this just something that you are trotting out or do you have figures? Its not Croke Park we are talking about like, this will be a stadium with a capacity of 1,500 greater than Pairc Ui Chaoimh currently has! Also, almost every munster hurling championship game 10 years ago pulled in 30k+ attendances. Cork pulled in 40k+ for a lot of theirs. Believe it or not the recession may not last forever. Cork Tipp this year pulled 30k and a state of the art stadium would certainly pull in an extra few thousand. So you want to turn away people from our games so as not to incur these phantom running costs? ITS ALL SEATER they are talking about ffs man, thats a huge difference in cost. The gaa already appallingly promote our games, they wont change any time soon imo, cork vs tipp and the return of JBM, couldnt fill the pairc, cork vs kerry brought in about 23,000, its time to get real, the days of munster championship matches filling 45,000 stadia are over except for the odd 1 every few years. -that does NOT justify building a stadium that size. Croke park corporate sponsors ensure semis are played there, there is no market for a 45,000 all seater stadium in cork anymore. Build one that we can sustain and use properly, the people who are expected to funs this are the clubs, its too much

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