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Topic: Refereeing standards - more let go as the season progresses
glasandbán (2,046 Posts)	Posted: 19-Aug-2012 17:54	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
glasandbán (2,046 Posts)	Ok it's a well worn cliché at this stage but we've seen from the finals the last few years that they are not reffed the same as early games. Another poster on another thread has pointed out that the same ref from todays game sent off Tom Condon in the league v Offaly for a brilliant tackle -the red was rescinded. What happened the ref since? Reffing with the shackles off since if he's given a semi he's already in the top 3 referees. A separate debate could be made as to whether "lesser" counties are refereed the same as the top counties. The absolutely crazy variance in refereeing standards is probably the biggest problem in hurling at the moment.
a skanger darkly (659 Posts)	Posted: 19-Aug-2012 18:00	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
a skanger darkly (659 Posts)	Fair point. Today's match was refereed very liberally. A referee has a duty to control the game in accordance with the rules and this was certainly not the case today. There is no responsibility on a ref to ensure a game flows - that rests with the attitude of the players. It seems that to reach the top level you must impress the assessor by reffing strictly by the book but can abandon all that got you there once you reach it.
glasandbán (2,046 Posts)	Posted: 19-Aug-2012 18:09	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
glasandbán (2,046 Posts)	This letting the game flow thing is a nonsense too. If the rules were properly enforced we would have a season probably of some games full of frees after which teams would learn to cop on and cut out stupid frees. You'd have to have better tackling and there'd be fewer swarms and schemozzles... the end result would be higher skill and
dodgy-keeper (3,496 Posts)	Posted: 19-Aug-2012 18:18	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dodgy-keeper (3,496 Posts)	Some referees are reluctant to send off high profile players as it may come against them being appointed to big games further down the line - if a manager comes out and expresses his displeaure with the decision publicly the ref in question may not be appointed to referee that side again. Paudie Maher was very lucky today. A straight red card if ever there was one. As blatant as Hogan v Limerick. The game was over when the incident happened so the ref took the easy option, didn't want to rock the boat and gave the cushy yellow. The same incident happens in a Christy Ring Cup match with two men and a dog attending and it's a definite red.
theblack&amber (593 Posts)	Posted: 19-Aug-2012 18:30	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
theblack&amber (593 Posts)	Its the inconsistency that bothers most people. Richie Hogan got a very deserved straight red for a wild pull against Limerick. Conor O'Mahony got a yellow card for hitting TJ Reid in the head (Don't think it was a red, he was late, but he had his eye on the ball put his hand up straight away). By those standards Paudie Maher should definitely have been sent off for two yellows, if not for a straight red for his wild pull on Reid. He was involved in 4 separate card worthy incidents today, how he stayed on the field I don't know.
Anyone but FF (1,490 Posts)	Posted: 19-Aug-2012 18:46	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Anyone but FF (1,490 Posts)	Hurling is being destroyed at the moment, That game today was border line wrestling with sticks at times. There will be no need for refs the way things are going.
deiseboy (609 Posts)	Posted: 19-Aug-2012 18:54	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
deiseboy (609 Posts)	The ref was poor today. He has a reputation for letting things go but as Cyril Farrell said there's a rulebook there and there should be consistency across games. How Padraig Maher stayed on the pitch was crazy. The ref also gave a free against Richie Power for having his helmet pulled off! He should have booked Jackie Tyrell and Lar Corbett early on to cut out the nonsense between them. Players will push the boundaries if they can get away with it and referees will have to get stricter.
Hold that Line (3,117 Posts)	Posted: 19-Aug-2012 18:59	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Hold that Line (3,117 Posts)	In fairness to Cyril Farrell he raised that point today but the rest of the panel just seemed to laugh at him with Mulcahy bawling "shure it's a man's game". That seemed to be the limit of his argument. If that's the case then why not allow hand to hand combat during play as it's even more manly. This message has been edited - 19-aug-2012 @ 19:01
dodgy-keeper (3,496 Posts)	Posted: 19-Aug-2012 19:10	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
dodgy-keeper (3,496 Posts)	Originally posted by Hold that Line: In fairness to Cyril Farrell he raised that point today but the rest of the panel just seemed to laugh at him with Mulcahy bawling "shure it's a man's game". That seemed to be the limit of his argument.If that's the case then why not allow hand to hand combat during play as it's even more manly. Cyril was spot on. Mulcahy is an ape - what happened early on was not too serious to be honest but a few yellow cards would have calmed it down. Instead the niggle was allowed continue between the likes of Corbett and Walsh.
galwayforliam (724 Posts)	Posted: 19-Aug-2012 21:06	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
galwayforliam (724 Posts)	I think the rule book needs to be cleaned up and made more cut and dried if you will. A lot of people talk about ref's using common sense and letting the game flow. But the ref is there to apply the rules and blow for fouls as they occur. But if the ref was to call for every tiny little infringement then the game would be completely unwatchable so as of the current rule book a ref has to apply his own "common sense" to making decisions. And that's where the problem lies. One man's foul by a defender is another man's barging by the forward or over carrying by a forward. We need to clearly define exactly how much physical pressure a defender can apply to the player in possession without it being a foul. It needs to be written down in black and white. Another issue is the issue of how many steps you can take. The rule says four but in reality I'd say its at least 6 and possibly 7. This can change then depending on whether or not the player is under a lot of physical pressure. But if we could define how much physical pressure a player can be put under then we can clear up the steps issue. If a player is being fouled give him a free, if he's not then give the free against him for over carrying. But I don't think 4 steps is really enough. Players always take more and maybe we should just change the rule to reflect that, allow them an extra step or 2 but then rigidly enforce that. Now obviously it's not easy to implement what I've said above but I do think in order to standardise referring we need to clean up the rule book to leave things less at a referee's discretion. Because in reality as the rules are now, if the ref was to apply them all to the letter of the law then we'd have no game at all. As I said above if a ref pulled every time a player took 5 steps then there would literally be a free a minute.
old seaman (146 Posts)	Posted: 19-Aug-2012 22:21	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
old seaman (146 Posts)	Originally posted by Anyone but FF: Hurling is being destroyed at the moment, That game today was border line wrestling with sticks at times. There will be no need for refs the way things are going. I fully agree. Cyril Farrell was shouted down for saying it. How could you have a ref sending off a minor full back for something that was border line a foul and then let Tipp and KK get away with anything that was not GBH. Cody has a lot to answer for. He is winning All Irelands but at the expense of the game. Tipp were bad today but probably felt they had to stand up to Kk.
FTJC (1,138 Posts)	Posted: 19-Aug-2012 23:20	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
FTJC (1,138 Posts)	The Galway minor full-back was wronged by an over zealous referee that ruined any chance Galway might have had against Tipp. The senior game was hardly reffed at all. The balance lies somewhere between the two.
Hidalgo (2,114 Posts)	Posted: 19-Aug-2012 23:46	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Hidalgo (2,114 Posts)	Originally posted by FTJC: The Galway minor full-back was wronged by an over zealous referee that ruined any chance Galway might have had against Tipp.The senior game was hardly reffed at all.The balance lies somewhere between the two. Something that was very noticable in comparing both minor semi finals with the senior games that followed is that in general, frees were blown for in the minor games at the slightest contact whilst the opposite happened in the senior games. If you had never seen hurling before, you'd think a different set of rules applied to minor and senior.
no.14 (33 Posts)	Posted: 20-Aug-2012 00:01	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
no.14 (33 Posts)	I felt sorry today for the young hurler from Galway that was sent off. An agrument could be made that neither yellow card was correct but the referee made a mess of it. I did think the best team won thou. And then we saw what went on on the senior game.
Shannonside (80 Posts)	Posted: 20-Aug-2012 00:15	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Shannonside (80 Posts)	Originally posted by no.14: I felt sorry today for the young hurler from Galway that was sent off. An agrument could be made that neither yellow card was correct but the referee made a mess of it. I did think the best team won thou. And then we saw what went on on the senior game. Have to say i defo thought he deserved the first yellow, he knew what he was doing and id say hed have no problem with the card himself..but the second was crazy. The senior game was a bit of a refereeing farce..all players want is common sense and consistency with referees. The early exchanges were let go and i would have no problem with that, but the stupid s**tty niggling that went on after should have been punished. If things are allowed build up it only ends in disaster. Maher should have got red, no doubt..complete cop out by ref.
Hombre (62 Posts)	Posted: 20-Aug-2012 02:23	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Hombre (62 Posts)	An injustice was done to Paul Killeen today.The first card was harsh and the 2nd incident was probably not even a foul.What a disgrace to send off a young lad like that and then see the carry on between KK and Tipp let go without sanction.Maddening.
Hold that Line (3,117 Posts)	Posted: 20-Aug-2012 03:36	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Hold that Line (3,117 Posts)	Originally posted by Hombre: An injustice was done to Paul Killeen today.The first card was harsh and the 2nd incident was probably not even a foul.What a disgrace to send off a young lad like that and then see the carry on between KK and Tipp let go without sanction.Maddening. I know one of the lads on the panel who told me that Paul Killeen was in tears coming off the field. He was having a super game as well. A really old style hard full-back. Even his first yellow I thought was a beautiful clear as day shoulder. Nailed on to play full-back for the Galway seniors one day. This message has been edited - 20-aug-2012 @ 03:45
manfromdelmonte (2,268 Posts)	Posted: 20-Aug-2012 13:29	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
manfromdelmonte (2,268 Posts)	nothing wrong with the rulebook just a lot of players know what they can get away with if county referees applied the hurling rules as most club referees do then there would be a lot less problems
bp (2,408 Posts)	Posted: 20-Aug-2012 13:54	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
bp (2,408 Posts)	Originally posted by manfromdelmonte: nothing wrong with the rulebookjust a lot of players know what they can get away withif county referees applied the hurling rules as most club referees do then there would be a lot less problems spot on, McAlister yesterday seemed determined yesterday to let " the game flow " no matter what, Richie Power clearly had his helmet dragged off him in front of the ref ( undeniable yellow card offence ), he gives a free alright - but to Tipp !! Can't go along with Diarmuid O'Flynn at all in the Examiner today in his appraisal of " The Man In Black " ; He writes " Cathal McAllister ( Cork ) handled the opening shenanigans very well, was doing superbly for most of the game, but as with the game itself , fell away towards the end. " I think D O'F is showing a bit too much solidarity with his county man there, unless he really wants the blood and bandage of Cork to mean that literally in the future.
Footy Facts (200 Posts)	Posted: 20-Aug-2012 15:05	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Footy Facts (200 Posts)	I thought that the first half yesterday was the most enjoyable I have seen for a long time. You could feel the tension and the tackles. It was good old fashioned man to man hurling with a little handbags thrown in, and I thought was refereed well. The second half though was entirely different. I would love to watch physical & skillful hurling, like we saw in the first half, seven days a week. Unfortunately refereeing performances and standards are a topic every Monday now, for both hurling and football matches. It's about time for the Croke Park committee, that spends its time tinkering with the playing rules every year, to put them aside for 3 years and work on the big issue of enforcing the rules. During the Olympics, I came across a hockey match one day. They had two refs and also the use of video technology to determine where a score should stand. In soccer and rugby, you have 3 officials who can call for frees to be awarded. In American Football there must be half a dozen refs. Considering that we have longer pitches and faster games than any of the others, surely we should look at having 3 decision making officials as well as umpires. Start with the intercounty matches in January, with a view to making it happen in the league. I think it is worth a look at, especially as intercounty linesmen are all referees in their own right. Just give them a whistle. I know that it mightn't be as easy to provide 3 officials for club games, but surely it is possible to do so for championship matches and other knock out games.

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