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Does Hurling Need Some Rule Changes?
NYcat
(11 Posts)
Posted:
21-Aug-2012 23:46
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Hurling is in trouble at the moment as are most contact sports. Gym and weight training is changing the style a lot. More barrell chested players exploiting upper body strength. Very little ground or overhead striking. Very little room for a Cha Fitzpatrick or Brendan Maher to show off their superb skills.
I think Kilkenny, Tipp, Dublin and now Galway have played the rules but that the rules need to change. As Dennis Walsh rightly pointed out hurling has turned into a game of 3 man tackles. What he didn't point out is that has been the MO for defenders on forwards for ever. All Kilkenny have done is applied the same rules for forwards tackling defenders. It was Clare which introduced the high intensity game in the 1990s. It was good for the game and created a lot of excitement.
Hurling fans should focus on how the rules should change to minimize tackles and allow players like Cha Fitzpattrick and Brendan Maher to compete fairly against the strong physical players.
Some proposals:
1.Limit the number & type of legitimate tackles to allow slightly built skilled hurlers to perform
2. Reward players for a great catch. Don't penalize them as much as at present. It's easy to wait and smother a player after he has landed.
3.Facilitate more ground hurling and clean overhead striking ala Waterford of the 1960s
As a side note, its sad to see the bitterness and anger expressed by so many posters on this website. It does not promote Ireland or its games to potential tourists.
theblack&amber
(593 Posts)
Posted:
21-Aug-2012 23:54
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Originally posted by NYcat:
Hurling is in trouble at the moment as are most contact sports. Gym and weight training is changing the style a lot. More barrell chested players exploiting upper body strength. Very little ground or overhead striking. Very little room for a Cha Fitzpatrick or Brendan Maher to show off their superb skills.I think Kilkenny, Tipp, Dublin and now Galway have played the rules but that the rules need to change. As Dennis Walsh rightly pointed out hurling has turned into a game of 3 man tackles. What he didn't point out is that has been the MO for defenders on forwards for ever. All Kilkenny have done is applied the same rules for forwards tackling defenders. It was Clare which introduced the high intensity game in the 1990s. It was good for the game and created a lot of excitement.Hurling fans should focus on how the rules should change to minimize tackles and allow players like Cha Fitzpattrick and Brendan Maher to compete fairly against the strong physical players.Some proposals:
1.Limit the number & type of legitimate tackles to allow slightly built skilled hurlers to perform
2. Reward players for a great catch. Don't penalize them as much as at present. It's easy to wait and smother a player after he has landed.
3.Facilitate more ground hurling and clean overhead striking ala Waterford of the 1960sAs a side note, its sad to see the bitterness and anger expressed by so many posters on this website. It does not promote Ireland or its games to potential tourists.
Hurling is in trouble purely in the aspect of playing numbers. The rules in general are good, its the inconsistency in their application thats the problem discipline wise.
Hurling is also in serious trouble because of Kilkenny, according to those bitter folk who can't stand the sight of Kilkenny. However, if Galway win the AI I can assure you the attitude of those very same people will change on that front and everything will be rosy again.
staycalm
(1,081 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 00:01
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Originally posted by theblack&amber:
Hurling is in trouble purely in the aspect of playing numbers. The rules in general are good, its the inconsistency in their application thats the problem discipline wise.Hurling is also in serious trouble because of Kilkenny, according to those bitter folk who can't stand the sight of Kilkenny. However, if Galway win the AI I can assure you the attitude of those very same people will change on that front and everything will be rosy again.
It would make you laugh really. Instead of every county doing what they can to ensure they reach, and pass, the level Kilkenny are operating at, Kilkenny are supposed to drop down a few levels to make it more competitive. Enjoy this year's final one way or another because the Limerick run for one is ready to rock n roll in 2013 :)
anfearard
(32 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 00:05
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id agree with you ny cat on the bitterness here,im guessing its down to jealousy or ignorance of the game..........anyway as regards rule changes ,id have to disagree with you.i think the game has evolved with players getting fitter and stronger and unfortunately the smaller man is fading fast from the game.but in the last 10 yrs we've been treated to arguably the best 6 games of the last 40 yrs .the scoring ability of the present generation is amazing at times ,but refs contribute to this with the amount of soft frees given out in games...the only change id like to see made is for refs to be leave games flow to an extent that lads are not cutting the limbs off each other...6 games are ai's 10,09,06 mf 04 ai semi 02 tipp v kk semi 03 cork v wex drawn game....
The Serb
(110 Posts)
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22-Aug-2012 00:11
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Maybe if a player was only allowed handle the ball once it might lead to more first time hurling and cut out all this frontal charging. Iv said it before on here, hurling as aspectacle is in big trouble and unless this physicality/thuggery is stamped out i fear for the game. The first thing the GAA should do is boot Cody out of the rules committee. Its the most ludicrous thing ive ever had. The man has a vested interest in keeping things the way they are. How i miss the free flowing hurling of Cork and Waterford in the noughties!!
staycalm
(1,081 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 00:20
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Originally posted by The Serb:
Maybe if a player was only allowed handle the ball once it might lead to more first time hurling and cut out all this frontal charging. Iv said it before on here, hurling as aspectacle is in big trouble and unless this physicality/thuggery is stamped out i fear for the game. The first thing the GAA should do is boot Cody out of the rules committee. Its the most ludicrous thing ive ever had. The man has a vested interest in keeping things the way they are. How i miss the free flowing hurling of Cork and Waterford in the noughties!!
While they were busy playing free flowing exhibition matches, Kilkenny were busy winning 7 All Irelands that decade
anfearard
(32 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 00:23
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jaysus its a mans game and id imagine it aint near as bad as the 40's or 50's.interesting thought on catching it once,wouldnt mind seeing that trialled.but i do agree with u on mr cody being on a rules commitee ,quiet bizare really......then again this is ireland !!!!!!!!!!
bosco32
(606 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 00:25
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There's not much wrong with the rules, they just need to be applied.
Perhaps a proper advantage rule so that refs can "let the game flow" and call things back if the advantage doesn't accrue.
theblack&amber
(593 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 00:27
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Originally posted by The Serb:
Maybe if a player was only allowed handle the ball once it might lead to more first time hurling and cut out all this frontal charging. Iv said it before on here, hurling as aspectacle is in big trouble and unless this physicality/thuggery is stamped out i fear for the game. The first thing the GAA should do is boot Cody out of the rules committee. Its the most ludicrous thing ive ever had. The man has a vested interest in keeping things the way they are. How i miss the free flowing hurling of Cork and Waterford in the noughties!!
Donal Og is also on that rules committee. Wouldn't he have a vested interest in setting things to suit him too?
Personally, I think its utterly stupid that people who are directly involved in the inter-county are on any type of committee that affects the game, it should only be recently retired players and managers on these things as they're not involved and are recent enough to know the scene.
And we all miss the free flowing Cork/Waterford games, they were absolute epics. They were also so open in defence that you could essentially walk through both sides, and while that undoubtedly contributed to their great games when it came to the crunch only Cork delivered outside Munster and even that with the talent they had they should have won more.
KeepOnHurling
(3,223 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 06:00
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I don't think too many changes are needed to the rules.
The rules that exist need to be enforced, and enforced consistently through all levels.
Stuff like steps or throwing the ball are ridiculous when you wait until the first few minutes of the game to see if the ref will enforce them.
As for some of the thuggery, it needs to be driven home to refs what exactly is a yellow and red card offence.
FTJC
(1,138 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 07:45
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Look, players are miles fitter now than they were even 10 years ago.
The time has probably come to change the game back to 13-a-side.
I even see it in some club games how space is so hard to find these days. Having 4 less players on the field might open it up.
It would also have the added benefit of helping rural clubs struggling for numbers.
The rule book itself is fine as far as I'm concerned.
the Goan
(245 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 08:03
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1/ reduce the number of players to 13.
-would also help weaker counties to compete.
2/ make the sliothar heavier; ball now too light.
KeepOnHurling
(3,223 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 08:22
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In cases where a player takes 10 steps but there's no free, and the connentators say that it's probably because the ref felt the lad was being fouled, there should be a clear signal from the ref that means "I know it's steps but I'm playing advantage".
Is there even an advantage rule in the rulebook?
Hidalgo
(2,114 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 09:24
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For me, the most blatant foul that's consistently committed is improper handpasses. The ball is being thrown rather than passed too often. On the rare occasions that the ref does blow for it, there's a bunch of idiots in the stand roaring at the ref. If it looks dodgy, it should be blown for as a throw. If players were only allowed to handpass off the hurley it would cut out this. Problem is thought that the result would be greater incentive to bottle up the player in possession as he'd end up getting caught for overcarrying.
An advantage rule would be great to see on a trial run, but could be very difficult to implement due to the speed of the game. Unlike rugby where if an advantage doesn't work out, the ball will usually be in the same region. Often the ref waves his hand to allow the team in possession some form of an advantage when realistically a free would be more an a advantage than allowing a player in possession continue with the ball being bottled up by the opposition.
Use refs as umpires and give them proper power to help the ref. This will help cut out a lot of the off the ball s*ite. (was Brian Gavin umpiring last Sundays minor match??) The referees assistants should be there to assist the ref. Either go with this or 2 refs are needed on the field, 1 in each half. It's impossible for a ref to see everything on a GAA pitch.
theblack&amber
(593 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 09:34
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Originally posted by FTJC:
Look, players are miles fitter now than they were even 10 years ago.The time has probably come to change the game back to 13-a-side.I even see it in some club games how space is so hard to find these days. Having 4 less players on the field might open it up.It would also have the added benefit of helping rural clubs struggling for numbers.The rule book itself is fine as far as I'm concerned.
Great idea, makes sense form all angles.
Problem is when the fouling, dragging, pulling and cynicism are still employed (it will always be there in a physical sport) how would people explain that then?
Still, a very good post with a very good point to it. Kudos.
a skanger darkly
(659 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 10:03
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Fiddling with the rules to negate the way KK play is ludicrous. It's like the PGA "Tiger-Proofing" golf courses when he was at his peak. It's up to other teams to match and surpass KK's standards.
However, there's a couple of general changes I'd like to see:
1. I'd be all in favour of a ref having the option to award a free if no advantage accrues after being given one.
2. With all the malarkey over the 4-step rule, the game is now at a pace that it should simply be increased to 6 steps. Four is virtually unenforceable anymore given the intensity of tackling.
3. Reward the basic skills of the game by reintroducing the 2-point sideline cut. I'd even go so far as to as to allow 2-points for any free taken from the ground.
4. Sort out the issue of time for once and for all by bringing in the countdown clock as used in Ladies Football. This is a no-brainer for senior inter-county games.
theblack&amber
(593 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 10:14
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Originally posted by a skanger darkly:3. Reward the basic skills of the game by reintroducing the 2-point sideline cut. I'd even go so far as to as to allow 2-points for any free taken from the ground.
4. Sort out the issue of time for once and for all by bringing in the countdown clock as used in Ladies Football. This is a no-brainer for senior inter-county games.
Great ideas, especially the two points off the ground one, what a skill that is (though if they ever did that they'd probably change a goal to being worth 4 points).
hurly burly
(11 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 10:31
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It is not often I agree with Sean Moran's assessment of hurling games but in this instance he has hit the nail on the head:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0822/1224322660315.html
Hilltop
(300 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 10:39
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Originally posted by the Goan:
1/ reduce the number of players to 13.
-would also help weaker counties to compete.
2/ make the sliothar heavier; ball now too light.
13 a side games would not benefit weaker counties. 13 top hurlers would beat 13 average to good hurlers by a lot more that 15 on 15. They would create more space, exploit that space and get a lot more scoring opportunities.
An annoyance i have with hurling, at every single level from u14 D club to KK vs Tipp, is the throw in.
It has disintegrated into a full on free-for-all.
I thought the rule was that the ref clears all but two players away, the two players have their hurleys down and they pull when the ref throws the ball in in the correct way????
Now, you've the situation where one of of following happens:
1) The ref picks the ball up after a bit of a melee, beckons two lads together, out of a group of 5 to 6, and just throws the ball in any oul way. Usually, the two aren't prepared and the group behind just flake away.
2) The players are ready for it, the others are a decent distance away but one lad just puts his leg across the other lad, takes the inevitable belt and a free is given.
I'm not advocating a Colin Lynch type throw in reaction but the throw in was designed to be a 50/50 chance for each team to regain possession - not a 80% chance of someone getting fcukling killed.
Hombre
(62 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 10:41
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Hurling is fine, the rules just need to be applied and applied consistently.Refs are very inconsistent.Last year I saw Waterford/Galway reffed by McAllister and he awarded over 20 frees against Galway,let nothing go, then last Sunday he let all sorts of fouls go unpunished (thats his style according to Mulcahy on TSG)We had anarchy on the pitch last Sunday.
We had the farcical situation where a young lad was sent to the line for something that you could argue was not even a foul while Padraic Maher ( and others) get away scott free with red card offences.
I wonder how Michael Rice feels about McAllisters policy of 'letting it flow'
Bicycle Kick
(101 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 10:53
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11 a side would be even better.
The take away the dangerous sticks and have the players user their feet and bodies to play the ball (except for their hands)
Do away with points as there is very little skill in putting a ball over a crossbar with no keeper.
Use a proper football instead of the sliotar.
Then we'd have a proper sport.
Remy Martin
(129 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 12:16
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Just read Sean Morans article. Makes a lot of sense.
Rush
(155 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 12:25
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Originally posted by Hilltop:
the throw in was designed to be a 50/50 chance for each team to regain possession - not a 80% chance of someone getting fcukling killed.
80% chance.........so going on that, how many fatalities in the last 5 years (for example)...as against a player gaining possesion?
Just wondering how I missed all those big GAA funerals....
finners
(212 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 12:26
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by the Goan:
1/ reduce the number of players to 13.
-would also help weaker counties to compete.
2/ make the sliothar heavier; ball now too light.
AGREE 100% The ball is to light at the moment. reducing the number to 13 would take away much of the bunching.
Also there has to be a defined tackle.
jackars
(13 Posts)
Posted:
22-Aug-2012 12:32
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Maybe the heads should look at players being cited after the match like in rugby, If a player was cited after a match and found guilty he should be suspended. But the problem I have with the GAA's suspensions, are, they might get 1 or 3 months suspension and they probably don't even have matches to play within that time frame. In my opinion they should get a number of match suspensions, for example if they get sent off in a Championship match, they should get 1 or 2 match ban for that competition like they do in the Champions league and it should run into the following year as well.
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