Originally posted by theblack&amber:
its very funny how hurling has degenerated (it hasn't) in the opinion of some only in the last 5/6 years.Curiously around the same time as Kilkenny started dominating. funny that. Or is it begrudgery?

Originally posted by theblack&amber:
its very funny how hurling has degenerated (it hasn't) in the opinion of some only in the last 5/6 years.Curiously around the same time as Kilkenny started dominating. funny that. Or is it begrudgery?

Originally posted by theblack&amber:
its very funny how hurling has degenerated (it hasn't) in the opinion of some only in the last 5/6 years.Curiously around the same time as Kilkenny started dominating. funny that. Or is it begrudgery?

This message has been edited - 22-aug-2012 @ 01:24

Originally posted by stretchitoutlads:
If Tipp won on Sunday and if the the Lar/Tommy/Pa/Jackie comedy show hadn't gone ahead, would this thread exist?

This message has been edited - 22-aug-2012 @ 01:42

Originally posted by Anyone but FF:
Lads its very intresting reading the reaction to Sundays game here over the last two days and its also been very intresting listening to lads (both hurling and non hurling men) at work discussing it over the last 48 hours. Personally ive made it clear on a few occasions here that I don't like the direction the game has taken in the last 5 or 6 years, I say that as both a fan and a club player.I saw hurling being described as lawless in yesterdays Irish Examiner and you know I found myself agreeing with that description, the sledging, the frontal hits, the off ball stuff, the pulling and dragging, the hurley around the neck and face, the chopping and the wild pulling are all more prominent now then they were a decade ago. Now its easy to say the game has evolved and it has but the rulebook hasn't and what was a foul back then should in theory still be a foul today, I know I will have the "its a mans game" brigade shouting me down here but I say to them that hurling was always a mans game before any of this "let the game flow" carry on was introduced. Men like Brendan Lynskey, John Power, Brian Corcoran, Ollie Baker all flourished and were revered in our game as hardened or tough competitors so where, when and why did some hurling people suddenly decide hurling wasnt hard enough??I have no doubt that Brian Cody (Why is a current manager on the rules commitee) and his KK team were chief instigators in this laxing of the rules but other teams have copped on and realised that they can push the limits as well. The Dubs last year were as physical a hurling team as iv seen up close, Waterford under Davy were more about physicality then skill, Galway were no angels in the Leinster final and we wont even get started on Tipps antics last Sunday. My own Cork while lagging behind in the science of the "dark arts" seem to have woken up to the fact that hurling now is governed more by guidelines rather then rules and as a result their has been a notable change in the refereeing standards down here over the course of this summer with much more being left go.Where is it all going to end up and what is becoming of hurling, In my own view we are only a few years away from seeing someone been taken from the field in a neck brace or with a bit of a finger missing as a result of foul play. Michael Rice's injury last Sunday was a terrible injury from what I thought was a foul but sure as is the norm these days its just brushed under the carpet with "its a mans game".Lads including myself are bemoaning the fall in attendences in recent seasons, The recession has an awful lot to do with it I know, but talking to a casual sunshine fan today he said "did it ever dawn on you hurling lads that yer game isnt as enjoyable to watch now as it was a few years back" Hes right you know, hurling is quickly resembling wrestling with sticks and its turning a lot of people off our sport. Tipp and KK lads will shout me down now as they claim im jealous as this change in the game has come during their reign as top dogs (and yes I am jealous of yer success, not jealous of yer current brand of hurling though).Hurling has two options I think. Implement the rules of the game, re train referees and "punish" referees who "let the game flow" or else simply re write the rule book if the majority of people want the game to be played as it currently is.The way things are going by 2020 hurling will be almost
unrecognizable to the hurling of the ninetys and early to mid noughties!

I saw hurling being described as lawless in yesterdays Irish Examiner and you know I found myself agreeing with that description, the sledging, the frontal hits, the off ball stuff, the pulling and dragging, the hurley around the neck and face, the chopping and the wild pulling are all more prominent now then they were a decade ago. Now its easy to say the game has evolved and it has but the rulebook hasn't and what was a foul back then should in theory still be a foul today,

a casual sunshine fan today he said "did it ever dawn on you hurling lads that yer game isnt as enjoyable to watch now as it was a few years back"

This message has been edited - 22-aug-2012 @ 02:05

This message has been edited - 22-aug-2012 @ 02:06

This message has been edited - 22-aug-2012 @ 06:14

Originally posted by Anyone but FF:
I know, but talking to a casual sunshine fan today he said "did it ever dawn on you hurling lads that yer game isnt as enjoyable to watch now as it was a few years back" !

Originally posted by Anyone but FF:
the sledging, the frontal hits, the off ball stuff, the pulling and dragging, the hurley around the neck and face, the chopping and the wild pulling are all more prominent now then they were a decade ago.

Originally posted by labane1917:
Hurling has always been a difficult and almost impossible game to referee. The speed of the game makes it very difficult to keep up with play let alone monitor what is going on off the ball. It is uniquely Irish and very much played "on the edge" historically. Throughout its history the game has been officiated and controlled largely by the discipline of the players. It is also a very dangerous game and serious injuries can occur (much more serious than you mentioned), either accidently or deliberately. I know of 3 men who sustained skull fractures from deliberate strikes to the head, two of whom were airlifted to hospital for emergency surgery. None of the three ever played the game again and one was left with permanent brain damage. All were young men in their 20s at the time. None of the perpetrators were ever held accountable by the authorities mainly because of the code of silence in GAA culture.
I have zero tolerance for deliberate striking and dirty play in general although I am in the "man's game" camp. Those that do not understand the difference between hard fair hurling and dirty hurling do not understand hurling and have no business commenting on it. I would be in favor of two referees, one in each half, to keep an eye on what is going on both on the ball and off the ball. There is nothing wrong with a bit of jostling and joulting between players, it has been going on since the game began and players expect it. They do not expect to be struck with a hurley when unable to defend themselves. There is also nothing wrong with surrounding a player in possession and forcing him to give up possession. The answer to swarm defense is a fast paced high skill game where the ball is kept moving at speed. Skill will always beat brawn as has been proven time and time again, a lesson Tipperary learned on Sunday. The great irony is if they played their own game at high speed and skill as they are well capable of they could have won, but that's another discussion.
The main problem the game faces is inconsistency in refereeing and by the GAA in "reviewing" incidents after a game. A Galway minor was sent off for a fair shoulder and then later contesting a high ball. Richie Murray was sent off a few years ago for a wild swing that made no contact, Richie Hogan for a wild swing that made contact with an arm, no sanction for Pa Cronin even though there was clear video evidence. Padraig Maher going around swinging wildly at everything that moved and stayed on the field for the whole game. Striking your opponent or swinging at him with the intention to strike is a red card offence and should be punished by a minimum 3 month ban. If the ref misses it then use video evidence and impose the same ban as would normally apply. After a few 3 to 6 month bans are applied the problem would be gone.
The second problem I would say (and this is common to football and hurling) is professional management setups. The games have been taken over by a mercenary greed culture where the managers are calling the shots. In my view within the GAA no manager, trainer, etc. should be paid other than normal expenses that a player receives, end of. The GAA have been derelict in not addressing this issue. In an amateur game the levels of commitment demanded of players is quite frankly ridiculous and there is zero concern for the long term health of players. The win at all costs culture mainly comes from managers who want to maintain their power and compensation, totally alien to what the GAA is supposed to be about.
Impose 3 month bans for striking and ban any team for a year that pays a manager or trainer, problem largely solved.

Originally posted by old seaman:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by uncle betty:
2. You have no doubts about Cody and his team's role in relaxing the rules ? !Is this becasue you have a blind prejudice about it, or because you have evidence. I hope the latter, because it;s a serious thing to say and I would not like it to be true.Every time there has been an attempt to tighten up the application of the rules (as in the NHL a few years back) Cody has been first out saying the physicality is being taken out of the game. I don't think anyone says he directly changes the rules but his influence has undoubtedly led to the present situation where anything goes and someone will soon be seriously hurt. The rules need to be applied strictly to get things back on track. If that means lots of frees, so be it. Teams will soon learn.

Originally posted by labane1917:
Hurling has always been a difficult and almost impossible game to referee. The speed of the game makes it very difficult to keep up with play let alone monitor what is going on off the ball. It is uniquely Irish and very much played "on the edge" historically. Throughout its history the game has been officiated and controlled largely by the discipline of the players. It is also a very dangerous game and serious injuries can occur (much more serious than you mentioned), either accidently or deliberately. I know of 3 men who sustained skull fractures from deliberate strikes to the head, two of whom were airlifted to hospital for emergency surgery. None of the three ever played the game again and one was left with permanent brain damage. All were young men in their 20s at the time. None of the perpetrators were ever held accountable by the authorities mainly because of the code of silence in GAA culture.
I have zero tolerance for deliberate striking and dirty play in general although I am in the "man's game" camp. Those that do not understand the difference between hard fair hurling and dirty hurling do not understand hurling and have no business commenting on it. I would be in favor of two referees, one in each half, to keep an eye on what is going on both on the ball and off the ball. There is nothing wrong with a bit of jostling and joulting between players, it has been going on since the game began and players expect it. They do not expect to be struck with a hurley when unable to defend themselves. There is also nothing wrong with surrounding a player in possession and forcing him to give up possession. The answer to swarm defense is a fast paced high skill game where the ball is kept moving at speed. Skill will always beat brawn as has been proven time and time again, a lesson Tipperary learned on Sunday. The great irony is if they played their own game at high speed and skill as they are well capable of they could have won, but that's another discussion.
The main problem the game faces is inconsistency in refereeing and by the GAA in "reviewing" incidents after a game. A Galway minor was sent off for a fair shoulder and then later contesting a high ball. Richie Murray was sent off a few years ago for a wild swing that made no contact, Richie Hogan for a wild swing that made contact with an arm, no sanction for Pa Cronin even though there was clear video evidence. Padraig Maher going around swinging wildly at everything that moved and stayed on the field for the whole game. Striking your opponent or swinging at him with the intention to strike is a red card offence and should be punished by a minimum 3 month ban. If the ref misses it then use video evidence and impose the same ban as would normally apply. After a few 3 to 6 month bans are applied the problem would be gone.
The second problem I would say (and this is common to football and hurling) is professional management setups. The games have been taken over by a mercenary greed culture where the managers are calling the shots. In my view within the GAA no manager, trainer, etc. should be paid other than normal expenses that a player receives, end of. The GAA have been derelict in not addressing this issue. In an amateur game the levels of commitment demanded of players is quite frankly ridiculous and there is zero concern for the long term health of players. The win at all costs culture mainly comes from managers who want to maintain their power and compensation, totally alien to what the GAA is supposed to be about.
Impose 3 month bans for striking and ban any team for a year that pays a manager or trainer, problem largely solved.

This message has been edited - 22-aug-2012 @ 11:25

Originally posted by Anyone but FF:
Lads its very intresting reading the reaction to Sundays game here over the last two days and its also been very intresting listening to lads (both hurling and non hurling men) at work discussing it over the last 48 hours. Personally ive made it clear on a few occasions here that I don't like the direction the game has taken in the last 5 or 6 years, I say that as both a fan and a club player.I saw hurling being described as lawless in yesterdays Irish Examiner and you know I found myself agreeing with that description, the sledging, the frontal hits, the off ball stuff, the pulling and dragging, the hurley around the neck and face, the chopping and the wild pulling are all more prominent now then they were a decade ago. Now its easy to say the game has evolved and it has but the rulebook hasn't and what was a foul back then should in theory still be a foul today, I know I will have the "its a mans game" brigade shouting me down here but I say to them that hurling was always a mans game before any of this "let the game flow" carry on was introduced. Men like Brendan Lynskey, John Power, Brian Corcoran, Ollie Baker all flourished and were revered in our game as hardened or tough competitors so where, when and why did some hurling people suddenly decide hurling wasnt hard enough??I have no doubt that Brian Cody (Why is a current manager on the rules commitee) and his KK team were chief instigators in this laxing of the rules but other teams have copped on and realised that they can push the limits as well. The Dubs last year were as physical a hurling team as iv seen up close, Waterford under Davy were more about physicality then skill, Galway were no angels in the Leinster final and we wont even get started on Tipps antics last Sunday. My own Cork while lagging behind in the science of the "dark arts" seem to have woken up to the fact that hurling now is governed more by guidelines rather then rules and as a result their has been a notable change in the refereeing standards down here over the course of this summer with much more being left go.Where is it all going to end up and what is becoming of hurling, In my own view we are only a few years away from seeing someone been taken from the field in a neck brace or with a bit of a finger missing as a result of foul play. Michael Rice's injury last Sunday was a terrible injury from what I thought was a foul but sure as is the norm these days its just brushed under the carpet with "its a mans game".Lads including myself are bemoaning the fall in attendences in recent seasons, The recession has an awful lot to do with it I know, but talking to a casual sunshine fan today he said "did it ever dawn on you hurling lads that yer game isnt as enjoyable to watch now as it was a few years back" Hes right you know, hurling is quickly resembling wrestling with sticks and its turning a lot of people off our sport. Tipp and KK lads will shout me down now as they claim im jealous as this change in the game has come during their reign as top dogs (and yes I am jealous of yer success, not jealous of yer current brand of hurling though).Hurling has two options I think. Implement the rules of the game, re train referees and "punish" referees who "let the game flow" or else simply re write the rule book if the majority of people want the game to be played as it currently is.The way things are going by 2020 hurling will be almost
unrecognizable to the hurling of the ninetys and early to mid noughties!