Originally posted by batter burger:
Very good points made there, some of which i've thought about myself. People have been giving out about football but top level hurling and particularly Kilkenny games have left no room for the skillful player like Deane, Paul Flynn, Eoin Kelly and hundreds of greats from the past. Surprised to see him mention Whelehan though.

Originally posted by theblack&amber:
A skillful player will always stand out.Conor McGrath, Tommy Walsh, Richie Hogan, Damien Hayes, they're all small enough, they don't seem to be stifled out of inter-county level.

Originally posted by Collig:
I remember Hayes a few years ago shrugging a Tipp back to the ground before unleashing the ball into the net.

Originally posted by spade caller:
Nonsense, Hayes shoved him by the head. Still a free out but your embellishment of the truth doesn't help your case.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy8d4q9GNnI

Originally posted by Collig:
You're equating players being small with physicality. No one in their right mind would say that Tommy Walsh isn't physical. Damian Hayes and Richie Hogan might be small but they are well built physically. I remember Hayes a few years ago shrugging a Tipp back to the ground before unleashing the ball into the net.McGrath has done well so far but then again he hasn't faced KK in senior championship has he!

Originally posted by theblack&amber:
"You're equating players being small with physicality". To be fair you have guys coming out and saying there's no place for the small man anymore. My point was if a player is good enough he'll stand out, regardless of size.I agree, Walsh, Hayes and Hogan et al are physical players but their much smaller men than most at inter-county level yet very capable at that level. The way some people are going on you have to 6'5" and 15 stone to get on to a county team. Essentially they're assuming physicality means size.I'm saying it doesn't, as Walsh, Hayes and Co prove. You can be small and flourish, you may need a bit of toughness to you but you can still flourish if you're good enough. You can be an exceptional talent at inter-county level without being 6'5" and 15 stone.There is always room for the little guy in hurling, presuming he's good enough. People go on about the likes of Joe Deane, saying he wouldn't get a place on the bench in today's game. Joe Deane was one of the greatest and most skillful hurlers to play the game, and as a lad that good he was always targeted by defenders. But he was also a tough bast**d, took the knocks, got on with it and never let it stop him hurling. I can't actually think of one game where he played bad. A lad like him would walk onto any current inter-county team such was his skill, regardless of his size.

Originally posted by Collig:
There was no mention of small men in that Donal Og article as far as I can see. I also haven't seen any points about having to be 6 foot 5 and 15 stone to get on a county team. Most points have centred around the fact that the way hurling is being reffed is a distant relation to the rule book.

As Donal Og states above "the spare hand" - since when is it a legitimate tackle to grab a fella around his body or his hurley with your spare hand? If it's now and again then people would ignore it but it's every time lads gets the ball now and there's no free as the game would just descend into a free being blown every 30 seconds, the ref would get it in the neck from the crowd and managers would give out stink about 'not letting the game flow'.

But does that make it right? No it doesn't and refs are going to have to start blowing for those type of frees which will eventually lead to players tackling within the rule book rather than engaging in systematic fouling.

And any reference to Joe Deane presumably is because people don't think he'd survive in today's game which is more of a reflection on the nature of the game today than Deane himself who, as you say, took plenty of hard hits in his day.

Originally posted by theblack&amber:
I didn't say Donal Og said they have to be 6'5" and 15 stone, I said the way some lads go on you'd have to be that. Nowhere did I infer that Donal Og said that. I was merely pointing out that skillful players, and small players, still have a role in inter-county hurling if they're good enough and skillful enough.And I agree fully with his point about the spare hand, he's spot on in that regard.And the Joe Deane remarks were to point out that despite the perceptions of the physicality of the modern game, men as brilliant as Deane would still walk onto any county side purely because of his supreme talents and skill and not his size.

This message has been edited - 23-aug-2012 @ 11:45

Originally posted by Collig:
I'm no idea who these 'some lads' are that you're referring to but I'll have to take your word that people are making such wild claims.

Originally posted by theblack&amber:
Take a look at most of the threads on this site, I'm sure you'll find quite a few lads on this site with the impression you have to be a monster of a man to play this game nowadays.More WWF than hurling, its degenerated into wrestling, only gym monkeys can play hurling these days. Stuff like that is all over the place.

Originally posted by Collig:
I've learned how to block out quite a few lads on this site b&a! In fairness, we might not agree but I'd gladly talk hurling with you any day boy.

Originally posted by theblack&amber:
There's a block function? Might come in handy some day.

Originally posted by Collig:
Just in my head b&a!

Originally posted by faithfulfan:
Great another whinge thread about the semi finals from a fella who loves the media spotlight, some valid points can't disguise the fact that it unlikely he would have had an issue if KK and Gal had lost and Cork Tipp had won playing by far the dirtier hurling. Cyril was referring to Tipp's tactics at half time, As for Gardiner claim, yes KK were reffed differently on Sunday, the same shoulder on Cummins would have been a free out and two KK players would have seen the line had used Tipp's tactics.He may had a point about Offaly's team in the 90's but why is it only a problem now? Cody's KK used the same brand of hurling to dismantle OY in 2000 no mention was made of it, as an aside Shane Dooley and Joe Canning are not far off being the best hurlers in the country and they seem to manage ok in todays game. Cork and Tipp boys are losing the run of themselves on here after a couple of hammerings, but the same fellas are are all too happy to stick the boot into Offaly, Waterford, Wexford etc. when the opportunity arises and remind us of our place, quoting their past glories.Make no mistake if Tipp and Cork were in the AI, all would be right with the world of hurling regardless of results elsewhere. No matter that hurling is suffering in many areas and the gulf is widening between the haves and have nots. These fellas only think of numero uno and self interest, if they can at all, they'll make enough noise and change the rules to suit themselves to the detriment of other counties as they did in the 90's.Anybody that saw Cork and Galway in Thurles a couple of years back, would have see an exhibition of sledging and off the ball antis from Cork that day to dwarf anything that went on last Sunday.Bring in a citing officer to look at incidents of foul play I assure you Cork an Tipp players are well able to give it when they want and can dive with the best of them.

Originally posted by YK2:
Screen resolution isn't great here but looking at video I think Hayes pulls his helmet downwards at 17secs and then pushes him to the ground by his head.We can agree the free out at least.........-YK2-