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Topic: team captains and refs
retiredmediocrehurler (80 Posts)	Posted: 28-Aug-2012 07:57	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
retiredmediocrehurler (80 Posts)	With all the talk about skirmishes, dirt etc would it be worth giving team captains a more important role in inter county matches. If the ref can call in the two captains after the first over heated five minutes (like Tipp- KK) and let them know that he's had enough and cards are going to be doled out. Let them talk to their teams and calm them down. Gets rid of the need for refs to get caught up in this crack of giving cards to put down a marker etc. Works in rugby. On the other hand the rugby teams are all standing close together on the field and it's easy for the captain to talk to them all together. It would have taken Lar and Tommy ages to find their way back in from the corner of the Davin and Cusack the last day.
Hilltop (300 Posts)	Posted: 28-Aug-2012 11:11	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Hilltop (300 Posts)	This is something I've championed for years. I played rugby in Clare and Limerick for years and I always thought the "captain approaching the ref" aspect to be beneficial to all sides. Even the fact that a captain can approach the ref at half time with any issues. Typically the ref will listen to these issues, get his point across and by and large, they are dealt with it. The problem with GAA is that refs don’t like their authority being questioned. I was once over an u14 football team and I spoke to the ref at half time about how the other team were tackling close fisted and were doing a lot of dragging and pulling. Simple observations – we were winning by 5 or 6 points so I wasn’t moaning, just pointing it out. Said referee was so annoyed with me for questioning him – claimed I was trying to undermine him, so he sent me off and I had to appear at a county board discipline meeting in Ennis. They can't handle anyone questioning their reading of the match. If, for example, a full forward and full back are baiting the heads off eachother off the ball, the ref should be able to call both captains, tell them these players are on thin ice and let that be the end of it. Equally, if the ref doesnt spot it, either captain should be able to go to the ref, raise the issue and let the ref keep an eye on it.
LETRIP (2,049 Posts)	Posted: 28-Aug-2012 11:17	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
LETRIP (2,049 Posts)	Originally posted by Hilltop: This is something I've championed for years. I played rugby in Clare and Limerick for years and I always thought the "captain approaching the ref" aspect to be beneficial to all sides. Even the fact that a captain can approach the ref at half time with any issues. Typically the ref will listen to these issues, get his point across and by and large, they are dealt with it. The problem with GAA is that refs don’t like their authority being questioned. I was once over an u14 football team and I spoke to the ref at half time about how the other team were tackling close fisted and were doing a lot of dragging and pulling. Simple observations – we were winning by 5 or 6 points so I wasn’t moaning, just pointing it out. Said referee was so annoyed with me for questioning him – claimed I was trying to undermine him, so he sent me off and I had to appear at a county board discipline meeting in Ennis. They can't handle anyone questioning their reading of the match. If, for example, a full forward and full back are baiting the heads off eachother off the ball, the ref should be able to call both captains, tell them these players are on thin ice and let that be the end of it. Equally, if the ref doesnt spot it, either captain should be able to go to the ref, raise the issue and let the ref keep an eye on it. Very sensible stuff!! Are you sure you are on the right forum talking about GAA? +1
carryharry (4,804 Posts)	Posted: 28-Aug-2012 11:39	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
carryharry (4,804 Posts)	A very sensible idea and one that should be used commonly by Referees. Either a quick word in the dressing rooms or a word with either captain before throw sets a marker imo. When i am umpiring i always let the keeper know i will be watching for his puckouts. 9/10 keepers say no problem and there is no problem there after. The big problem facing referees is that not enough power lays with umpires. Unless there is a clear striking action you can't raise your hand to grab an officials attention. The Ref i help out told me not to raise my hand if i think there was a foul or a square ball for example. Only he can call them, so we work a system where i point to the ground if i think there is an issue with a score. Umpires need to be as up to date with rules as the referee but this is not something the Association seem bothered with. A real pity.
JohnneyCool (2,069 Posts)	Posted: 28-Aug-2012 13:08	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
JohnneyCool (2,069 Posts)	Originally posted by carryharry: A very sensible idea and one that should be used commonly by Referees.Either a quick word in the dressing rooms or a word with either captain before throw sets a marker imo.When i am umpiring i always let the keeper know i will be watching for his puckouts. 9/10 keepers say no problem and there is no problem there after.The big problem facing referees is that not enough power lays with umpires. Unless there is a clear striking action you can't raise your hand to grab an officials attention. The Ref i help out told me not to raise my hand if i think there was a foul or a square ball for example. Only he can call them, so we work a system where i point to the ground if i think there is an issue with a score.Umpires need to be as up to date with rules as the referee but this is not something the Association seem bothered with.A real pity. I always thought a quick word with both managers half an hour before the game would be a good idea to set out their stall and allow the management to ensure their players knew what would be expected of them and subsequent consequences if required.
Curran (36 Posts)	Posted: 28-Aug-2012 15:20	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Curran (36 Posts)	Originally posted by JohnneyCool: I always thought a quick word with both managers half an hour before the game would be a good idea to set out their stall and allow the management to ensure their players knew what would be expected of them and subsequent consequences if required. When i was reffing games, I'd always have a word with both managers, tell them what i was watching for and what wasn't going to be tolerated etc etc. Very interesting to see how many times I'd do this and then later book/send off a player for something i had warned the management about. It would take both sides to change the mentality and actually respect this.
bigman14 (23 Posts)	Posted: 28-Aug-2012 20:10	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
bigman14 (23 Posts)	Its a nice idea but what if the two captains are playing full back or in goal
hurling fan (758 Posts)	Posted: 28-Aug-2012 20:37	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
hurling fan (758 Posts)	A good idea in relation to how things developed at the start of the KK v Tipp game. Having said that, the so called "melee" was done and dusted within the first 60 seconds. The "melee", Tipp's tactics, Lar's antics are all just smoke screens to save media blushes and the blushes of Croke Park officialdom. They have been getting it wrong (deliberately)for years i.e. confusing physicality and dirt. Their real desire was to see KK play dirty like Tipp did and then they could justify their criticism of this great KK team. The refs have been influenced by the media for far too long and what happened in that game was brewing for a long time. Refs are going out to ref KK but ignore a lot of what the opposition gets up to as we saw clearly in the Tipp/KK game. Now the same embarrassed media want us to believe that Tipp played that way because KK play on the edge. If that was the case it certainly doesn't justify playing dirty and that is where the ref should act. He clearly didn't in that game and now the media and Croke Park are going to have to re-assess their thinking. The first thing that they need to do is to stop pressurising refs into watching just one team i.e. Kilkenny. It appears that everybody accepts that Tipp played dirty and got away with it. Cody wouldn't be very fair to his team if he allowed the dirty play to go without comment, at the very least. If the great Sunday Game and sports journalists want to quickly forget what Tipp got up to, then Cody has every right to remind them. Barry Kelly has to ref the Final fairly. He's around a long time and knows how KK play. He must get up to speed on how Galway play. In so doing he will be capable of reffing TWO teams on Sept 9th. This wasn't the case in the KK/Tipp game.
Keanes Road (2,524 Posts)	Posted: 28-Aug-2012 20:52	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Keanes Road (2,524 Posts)	Originally posted by bigman14: Its a nice idea but what if the two captains are playing full back or in goal For arguments sake say they are. Any hold up in play would be negligible in comparison to the hold ups due to persistent skirmishes breaking out all over the place and reading the riot act to several players all over the pitch. At inter county level you are dealing with fit men so an old jog up to talk to the ref and a sprint back into position could not take too long. It is an idea I would like to see tried. Puts responsibility back onto the teams and more so the captain to maintain a bit of order.
Romany Browne (13 Posts)	Posted: 28-Aug-2012 21:45	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Romany Browne (13 Posts)	In this day and age, how likely is it that we could have two referees for all intercounty games?? For years, a huge embarrassment of the GAA as an organisation is the contempt with which a ref is treated. One man has to run his arse off to keep up with play as well as watch 13 one to on battles taking place.. And we expect him to give us measured on the spot rationalisations of the split second decision as he's making a fifty yard sprint to ensure he's up with play when a free is struck... I mean, we don't half expect alot from one person!! What about giving linesmen more power to help the referee?? There are three referees at every game but two are in the guise of linesmen and don't really fully utilise their expertise of the rules in the system as we have it. The counter argument against this is a lack of referees. Well, why not even get rid of linesmen as we know them from intercountunty games altogether. Give the flag to a couple of young apprentice whippet referees who can more than ably patrol the line, thus freeing up a second ref to help the main man. It benefits everyone.. The game does not need to be stopped to book a player. Players and referees can communicate more effectively without slowing down the game. The ref is no longer an island, as a team refereeing decisions would become more consistent and the sub conscious "evening up" decisions that annoy spectators so much would be far far less. I think it's very workable and something GAA should look into.
KeepOnHurling (3,223 Posts)	Posted: 29-Aug-2012 06:54	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
KeepOnHurling (3,223 Posts)	[QUOTE]Originally posted by retiredmediocrehurler: If the ref can call in the two captains after the first over heated five minutes (like Tipp- KK) and let them know that he's had enough and cards are going to be doled out. Let them talk to their teams and calm them down. Gets rid of the need for refs to get caught up in this crack of giving cards to put down a marker etc. [QUOTE] Not sure about this. The ref should not be letting players away with yellow or red cards offences and telling the captain that from now on I'm going to enforce the rules. Players shouldn't need a warning that the ref might enforce the rules. And the captain should know themselves that if lads are getting involved in scuffles that they are leaving themselves open to yellow or red cards. This message has been edited - 29-aug-2012 @ 06:57
cerebus (3,258 Posts)	Posted: 29-Aug-2012 07:43	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
cerebus (3,258 Posts)	Originally posted by bigman14: Its a nice idea but what if the two captains are playing full back or in goal Twould hardly take a minute and 48 secs going by upfield excursions by goalkeepers in HQ matches, allegedly, and the extra time could be added on ...at the end like.....apparently.
Torcaill (218 Posts)	Posted: 29-Aug-2012 09:41	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Torcaill (218 Posts)	What is wrong with just applying the rules. Someone steps out of line - book / send them off. Next player, same thing. The idea of talking to captains instead of issuing cards (as they are supposed to) is nonsense. Players should know what to expect if the misbehave and its hardly the refs fault if he has to issue cards.

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