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Dublin's defence of Sam and confirmation they were lucky in 2011
uachtaran
(1,240 Posts)
Posted:
02-Sep-2012 22:40
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If it was your team would anyone criticise Mayo for hauling down the Dublin forwards quite a few times in the 2nd half today? Of course not. Everyone knows Kerry had the final won last year with 10 mins to go if they avoided conceding a goal.
I have always thought Dublin were very lucky last year, helped by McQuillan as well. They probably deserved an All Ireland for the many years of being there or thereabouts, but really again today they showed that they are decent side but far from a great side.
Dublin's defence of Sam has been poor all year - I mean that you would have expected the Dubs to play a bit of "champagne football" in the early rounds and it would have been reasonable for a lack of hunger to finally catch up with them in the later stages.
But they didn't produce one decent performance all year. The stats show its hard to retain Sam in the modern era, but Dublin supporters must be disappointed with the year.
Collig
(1,690 Posts)
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02-Sep-2012 22:44
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Deserving champions in 2011. There's a reason Sam has only been retained once since 1990. Whoever wins it this year will find that out 2013!
frasiercrane
(1,843 Posts)
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02-Sep-2012 22:51
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They deserved to win in 2011 no team who wins an all ireland has bad luck during the year.Hunger got them through last year and the hunger wasn't there this year.They weren't far off this year despite not playing brilliantly all year, they'll be back next year probably with a new manager and a degree of freshness.
yankeelad
(5,535 Posts)
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02-Sep-2012 22:54
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Originally posted by Collig:
Deserving champions in 2011. There's a reason Sam has only been retained once since 1990. Whoever wins it this year will find that out 2013!
You just cut right to the chace with that comment Collig.Short and to the point but will obviously fall on deaf ears around here
cerebus
(3,258 Posts)
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02-Sep-2012 22:54
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Originally posted by frasiercrane:
Hunger got them through last year and the hunger wasn't there this year.They weren't far off this year...
Hunger my ass.
Glór na ngael
(1,198 Posts)
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02-Sep-2012 22:55
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Dublin defeated Tyrone, Donegal and Kerry last year, three sides who have either won it recently or look like winning it. There is no such thing as a 'soft' All-Ireland, and the Dubs were deserving winners last September.
maroonandwhite
(1,069 Posts)
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02-Sep-2012 23:08
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If mcquillan wasn't reffing it they wouldn't have won it. As long as people keep up the bs omertà about criticising refs we will continue to see shocking performances.
But they aren't a bad team an would have won today with a properly picked team and a fit Alan brogan. Couldn't see them gettin through Donegal though.
corcaighabu92
(1,149 Posts)
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02-Sep-2012 23:13
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Originally posted by Glór na ngael:
Dublin defeated Tyrone, Donegal and Kerry last year, three sides who have either won it recently or look like winning it. There is no such thing as a 'soft' All-Ireland, and the Dubs were deserving winners last September.
Tyrone were no where near what they were like when they won their All Irelands. Donegal werent a patch that they are like this year. Kerry ----ed it away.
Still though the two Brogan's were the difference last year. Alan was injured this year and Bernard was in poor form.
yankeelad
(5,535 Posts)
Posted:
02-Sep-2012 23:28
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Originally posted by maroonandwhite:
If mcquillan wasn't reffing it they wouldn't have won it. As long as people keep up the bs omertà about criticising refs we will continue to see shocking performances. But they aren't a bad team an would have won today with a properly picked team and a fit Alan brogan. Couldn't see them gettin through Donegal though.
What the fcuk is this around here every Sunday night with the would thave could have.How about giving full credit to the boys that delivered the goods on the day against the 15 lads they played against.Christ lads when are ye finally going to learn to leave it on the field as I am pretty sure the lads that actuelly played the game feel about it.You want to bring up facts fine.The Dubs had an easy run all year and even though I reside 3 thousand miles away could see every Sunday they played they were constantly struggling against verty dubious opposition while Donegal were slaying monsters Sunday after Sunday.Give it a rest.The two best football teams this year will be playing for Sam and that can only be a good thing for all fans of the ould game.Hey it has taken a beatin around here recently so I am delighted to see Donegal and Mayo going toe to toe in the last game of the season.
Glór na ngael
(1,198 Posts)
Posted:
02-Sep-2012 23:34
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Originally posted by corcaighabu92:
Tyrone were no where near what they were like when they won their All Irelands. Donegal werent a patch that they are like this year. Kerry ----ed it away. Still though the two Brogan's were the difference last year. Alan was injured this year and Bernard was in poor form.
If you take that attitude, you can denigrate any achievement. Take Donegal's path to the final this year:
Cavan-poor.
Tyrone- past their best.
Down- Porous defence ; subsequently hammered by Mayo.
Kerry- Past their best.
Cork- Over-rated, won one All-Ireland after Kerry had been taken out for them.
See what I did there?
There's no such thing as a soft All-Ireland; if you go all the way, you deserve to have won it.
KeepOnHurling
(3,223 Posts)
Posted:
03-Sep-2012 03:13
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The Dubs do seem to be involved in a lot of very tight matches, so a little bit of luck of luck is what you need.
They got their little bit of luck in 2011 for sure, but I remember them being unlucky to lose tight semi finals to Armagh and Cork in recent times, even yesterday they only lost by 2 points and Clarke made an unbelievable save in injury time.
It's small margins that make the difference.
cupla focal
(14 Posts)
Posted:
03-Sep-2012 14:53
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Originally posted by KeepOnHurling:
The Dubs do seem to be involved in a lot of very tight matches, so a little bit of luck of luck is what you need.They got their little bit of luck in 2011 for sure, but I remember them being unlucky to lose tight semi finals to Armagh and Cork in recent times, even yesterday they only lost by 2 points and Clarke made an unbelievable save in injury time.
It's small margins that make the difference.
Wouldn`t disagree with a lot of what you say, but feel it would have been a travesty if Mayo who were easily the better team yesterday had lost
Hold that Line
(3,117 Posts)
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03-Sep-2012 15:04
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The Dubs never seemed quite right all year and foostered their way through most of their games. Wexford took the lead against them in the 2nd half of that game but started kicking awful wides just when they smelt the upset which left the door open for the Dublin to launch a comeback. Yesterday they left themselves with too much to do. People put faith in them raising their game yesterday but it's not easy to turn it on and off like a tap. In reality they were ripe for the picking.
glasandbán
(2,046 Posts)
Posted:
03-Sep-2012 15:08
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Dublin well deserved their all ireland last year, no BS please they were the better team in a genuinely good final and it did appear as if the cliché of the team with greater hunger coming true actually was the case that day.
Same hunger not there this year but injury affected them and perhaps Gilroy might regret his selection policy this year with a little bit of hindsight. They'll still be in the top 4 or 5 next year.
onthebench
(171 Posts)
Posted:
03-Sep-2012 15:42
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by yankeelad:
What the fcuk is this around here every Sunday night with the would thave could have.How about giving full credit to the boys that delivered the goods on the day against the 15 lads they played against.Christ lads when are ye finally going to learn to leave it on the field as I am pretty sure the lads that actuelly played the game feel about it.You want to bring up facts fine.The Dubs had an easy run all year and even though I reside 3 thousand miles away could see every Sunday they played they were constantly struggling against verty dubious opposition while Donegal were slaying monsters Sunday after Sunday.Give it a rest.The two best football teams this year will be playing for Sam and that can only be a good thing for all fans of the ould game.Hey it has taken a beatin around here recently so I am delighted to see Donegal and Mayo going toe to toe in the last game of the season.[/QUOTE
Well said. You won't win any title without a bit of lady luck. Saying you are lucky to win one as if that's the only thing that got you there is an insult to the lads who put in the hard yards. Heard it said about Galway too in 98 and Cork 2010 are still getting it in spades. Cork and Dublin will be right there next year, going for another lucky All-Ireland.
JoNinety
(Power User)
Posted:
03-Sep-2012 15:49
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If failing to retain Sam is proof that an All-Ireland was lucky then every team was lucky since 1990 except Kerry in 06/07.
rebelrebel30
(8,531 Posts)
Posted:
03-Sep-2012 18:12
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Originally posted by uachtaran:
If it was your team would anyone criticise Mayo for hauling down the Dublin forwards quite a few times in the 2nd half today? Of course not. Everyone knows Kerry had the final won last year with 10 mins to go if they avoided conceding a goal. I have always thought Dublin were very lucky last year, helped by McQuillan as well. They probably deserved an All Ireland for the many years of being there or thereabouts, but really again today they showed that they are decent side but far from a great side.Dublin's defence of Sam has been poor all year - I mean that you would have expected the Dubs to play a bit of "champagne football" in the early rounds and it would have been reasonable for a lack of hunger to finally catch up with them in the later stages.But they didn't produce one decent performance all year. The stats show its hard to retain Sam in the modern era, but Dublin supporters must be disappointed with the year.
Wouldnt agree at all. No such thing as a soft all irelands. Dublin won it fair and square in 2011, just like Cork 2010 and as much as i hate saying it Kerry in 2009 and so on and so on etc. We all like to feel theirs ones that got away etc but at the end of the day we all have to hold our hands up and acknowledge what the roll of honour says no questions.
giant reed
(174 Posts)
Posted:
03-Sep-2012 18:28
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I don't agree with "lack of hunger". Dublin could have thrown in the towel with 20 minutes to go but they dragged themselves back into the game. They were worthy winners last year and went down fighting like champions should.
Muilleann
(61 Posts)
Posted:
04-Sep-2012 09:29
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Dublin fully deserved their AI victory in 2011.
To suggest otherwise is to go down the same road as the whingeing KK Cats who could'nt accept Tipp's victory in 2010.
stretchitoutlads
(269 Posts)
Posted:
04-Sep-2012 10:39
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Originally posted by Muilleann:
Dublin fully deserved their AI victory in 2011.To suggest otherwise is to go down the same road as the whingeing KK Cats who could'nt accept Tipp's victory in 2010.
what??????? All the whinging occurred after the 2009 AI and it came from Tipp fans! Of course Tipp deserved 2010, they were the better team on the day. Jesus, even on a thread about football, you have miserable +++s like you whining about Kilkenny hurling
bosco32
(606 Posts)
Posted:
04-Sep-2012 10:59
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There are teams that win All Irelands when they are clearly the best team in the country.
Then there are teams who perform well during the year and when it matters and get over the line. Luck always plays a role in such victories.
Dublin in 2011 were very much one of the latter.
There are not too many of the former, particularly in the modern age.
As a Dub, the most disappointing thing about Sunday was the proof that a significant factor in the team's below par form all year was down to the inexplicable decision to deploy MacAuley at centre forward to the exclusion of McManamon and to accommodate the inclusion of the two worst players on the team in the middle of the field. The comeback was largely inspired by the switch of MacAuley to midfield and the reestablishment of a conventional six man forward line.
There are decisions that managers make that you might disagree with but can see a rationale for. I would love to know what the Dublin management were trying to do with this though. Particularly as it hadn't worked in the previous three matches.
In addition the blanket defence that (unfortunately) is a prerequisite for any team with genuine All Ireland ambitions seems to have been abandoned. The amount of space between the Dublin full back line and half back line on Sunday was unreal and the contrast between that and the semi final with Cork in 2010 was striking.
worried
(86 Posts)
Posted:
04-Sep-2012 11:51
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Rebel says Dublin deserve to win last year 2011 ? Evidence points to a different story only your hatred and jealously for Kerry is blinding your vision,If Kerry play Cork in Croke Park for the next 50 years they will always beat them and that is hard for ye to take ,Dublin were as bad this year as last year ,3 footballers ( Cluxton + Brogans ) everyone knows that the ref handed it to Dublin last year ,Des Cahill said on the Sunday Game he handed 5 points to Dublin with soft frees + 2 straight reds to Dublin as he should have ,Mayo manager said there was blood all over the dressing.room after sunday ,no reds for Dublin after several incidents of thuggery clearly shown on tv,same ref as last year ,where are the CCCC,obviously they are only there to preveny Kerry winning any more all irelands
An Carta Bui
(277 Posts)
Posted:
04-Sep-2012 12:47
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Originally posted by corcaighabu92:
Tyrone were no where near what they were like when they won their All Irelands. Donegal werent a patch that they are like this year. Kerry ----ed it away. Still though the two Brogan's were the difference last year. Alan was injured this year and Bernard was in poor form.
You can make that argument about every All Ireland winner. Armagh were on the way down after Tyrone won it. Kerry were on the way down after Offaly won it. You can only beat whats put before you. Dublin had been coming a few years and underage they are still winning their way to finals so last Sunday wont be the end of them. Give them some credit not anti Dublin begrudgery. How many teams would keep fighting against Kerry with a five point lead and less than ten minutes to go?
As one posters says it just shows how hard it is to win 2 in a row.
KingDub
(304 Posts)
Posted:
04-Sep-2012 12:53
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Originally posted by worried:
Rebel says Dublin deserve to win last year 2011 ? Evidence points to a different story only your hatred and jealously for Kerry is blinding your vision,If Kerry play Cork in Croke Park for the next 50 years they will always beat them and that is hard for ye to take ,Dublin were as bad this year as last year ,3 footballers ( Cluxton + Brogans ) everyone knows that the ref handed it to Dublin last year ,Des Cahill said on the Sunday Game he handed 5 points to Dublin with soft frees + 2 straight reds to Dublin as he should have ,Mayo manager said there was blood all over the dressing.room after sunday ,no reds for Dublin after several incidents of thuggery clearly shown on tv,same ref as last year ,where are the CCCC,obviously they are only there to preveny Kerry winning any more all irelands
The reason Kerry didn't win the All Ireland last year is that they weren't good enough. Same as they weren't good enough this year. Ye have been too busy admiring yourselves down there for the last 10 years and have completely neglected your underage structures. You won't win an All Ireland again for 10 years and its nobodys fault but your own.
Now please stop whining about CCC conspiracies, referees and imagined thuggery. Its unedifying and no one cares.
Muilleann
(61 Posts)
Posted:
04-Sep-2012 13:16
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Originally posted by stretchitoutlads:
what??????? All the whinging occurred after the 2009 AI and it came from Tipp fans! Of course Tipp deserved 2010, they were the better team on the day. Jesus, even on a thread about football, you have miserable +++s like you whining about Kilkenny hurling
I never whinged about 2009.
It was an absolutely brilliant game which I thoroughly enjoyed and which Tipp lost themselves due to inexperience.
But after 2011 final the posts by KK fans on KK Cats were derisive to say the least of Tipp's win the previous year.
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