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Enda McEvoy's piece on the South KK/Waterford Issue
Hud
(3,812 Posts)
Posted:
02-Nov-2005 11:18
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Would be interested in comment on this.
A balanced appraisal or an hysterical over-reaction?
*****************************************************
[From the Sunday Tribune, 30/10/05]
THE bare figures first. Twenty townlands, 6,000 acres and 5,000 residents of south Kilkenny to be assumed into Deiseland if the Minister for the Environment accedes to Waterford's plans for . . . well, lebensraum being a word not to be touched with two bargepoles, let's describe it as Waterford's plans for expansion and leave it at that.
Behind the claims and the counter-claims and the accusations of . . . yes . . . Nazism, behind the public meetings and the protest songs, the resistance movement is a simple song of identity. Buckle up for a tour of the highways and byways along the banks of the Suir that flow down by Mooncoin and nearby parishes. Ned Doyle, one of the Mooncoin club's driving forces, is our genial chauffeur.
Hurling is our prism. Sometimes all politics is local GAA.
How many All Ireland medals are there in Mooncoin? So many that the natives gave up counting long ago. Drug Walsh lived in the village. Seven All Ireland medals between 1904 and 1913, never beaten in a final.
Here's Luffany, the home of Wattie Dunphy, the first Kilkennyman to lift the McCarthy Cup, and his nephew Joe, who captained the county's minors to successive All Ireland titles against Babs Keating's Tipperary in 1961-62. There's the Ballincur house of Jim Lynch, he who led Mooncoin to their last county title in 1965. A good man against Tipperary in an era when Kilkenny didn't always have good men against Tipperary.
Now we're in Dournane, home of the three Doyle brothers and their 18 All Ireland medals (Dick seven, Eddie six, Mick five) from the first golden era of Kilkenny hurling. Now we're in Carrigeen and passing the old family residence of Padraig Puirseal: novelist, Irish Press writer, GAA historian. Now we're in Glengrant, outside the cream-coloured house that Bob O'Keeffe, former Leinster Council chairman and GAA president, came out of.
"Hurlers, " as Ned Doyle so concisely puts it, "in every square yard of this place."
And not only deceased ones, for Mooncoin are the new Kilkenny under-16 champions and today contest the county intermediate final. Off the field they're similarly going places, having been allocated 180,000 by the National Lottery for a 1.3m development that will include the provision of two full-sized pitches, a juvenile pitch, a stand, new dressing rooms and a face-lift for the clubhouse.
They're all castle builders in these parts. A mile up the road, Carrigeen GAA club have installed a 325,000 floodlit astroturf pitch that's used every evening of the week by local teams, a number of whom travel out from Waterford. Up to now, folk hereabouts never had to think about who they were and where they came from.
These days they're finding that they do. "There's always been rivalry with Waterford, but there's always been cooperation too, " says Pat Dunphy, a Carrigeen committee member and Kilkenny county councillor. "It would be nice to see the same cooperation on the political front."
The campaign against the so-called landgrab is neither solely a GAA matter nor remotely an "anti-Waterford thing, " Kilkenny county chairman Ned Quinn, himself a Mooncoin man, is at pains to point out. "Those of us who live in south Kilkenny coexist very comfortably with Waterford people. We socialise there, we shop there, we were by and large educated there.
Upgrading Waterford IT to university status, upgrading Waterford Regional Hospital and the regional airport . . .
these are causes that south Kilkenny people are very much in favour of. But we don't believe we should have to change our identity along the way."
It's not generally recognised, Quinn adds, that Kilkenny is one of the bottom 10 counties in Ireland in terms of population. "Our success rate in inter-county hurling probably masks that.
But the loss of 5,000 people would certainly have detrimental effects, especially in the longer term."
In practical terms, Waterford city council's proposals involve the transfer of authority from Kilkenny county council for two-thirds of Slieverue, part of Kilmacow and that chunk of Ferrybank that's still in county Kilkenny.
Yet there's more to it than maps and legends. The big fear across south Kilkenny runs as follows: if Waterford get away with this, how much more land will they want next time around? While Mooncoin and Carrigeen and Mullinavat are secure for the moment, they're unlikely to remain untouched should an emboldened Waterford come back for seconds in, say, 10 years' time. Elsewhere, the local authorities in Wexford are reported to be casting eyes at Tullogher and Rosbercon. From a south Kilkenny point of view, the thin end of the wedge has to be broken off in the here and now.
Heading towards Slieverue up the hill by the church in Ferrybank, where Locky Byrne, who lined out for both Kilkenny and Waterford on All Ireland final day in the 1930s, is buried just outside the presbytery door, the car in front has a sticker on the back window. "Hands off Kilkenny, " it reads in . . . naturally - black writing on an amber background. Two hundred yards further on, a sign says, "Welcome to county Kilkenny". Exactly.
In its own way, Slieverue's hurling tradition is as proud as Mooncoin's. They produced a GAA president in Paddy Buggy, a man who in his misspent youth hurled illegally for Ferrybank in the Waterford minor championship.
They supplied three members of Kilkenny's 1957 All Ireland-winning side in Buggy, Dick Rockett and Mick Walsh.
They sent Ned Power of Milepost off on missionary work to Wexford. They enjoyed their own far-off hour of sweetness when capturing the 1954 Kilkenny county title. Black and amber to the bone, right down to the colour of their jerseys. But under the Waterford proposals, the local church, the GAA ground and both national schools will move counties. Armageddon.
"People will say that we should let Waterford have their boundary, " says Jim Walsh, one of the leaders of the resistance. "That the field will still be here, that Slieverue GAA club will still be here. But that misses the point. It's a question of identity. It's about what makes you a Slieverue man rather than a Glenmore man, a Kilkenny man rather than a Waterford man. It's about putting on the jersey."
What's more, Walsh argues, because new people coming to live in the parish will have a Waterford address and have their refuse and sewage services controlled from across the river should the plan receive the green light, it will be "less easy" for them to identify with Slieverue, less easy for the club to gain their allegiance.
"It's important that people here identify with Slieverue rather than with Waterford or Ferrybank. Next thing you know, people out here will want to play with Waterford.
And Waterford won't say that they can't."
Over 12,000 objections to the proposals . . . 5,000 of them generated by the Kilkenny county board, another 1,400 emanating from Slieverue itself . . . were recently handed in at Waterford city hall.
Kilkenny county council have until 26 January next year to submit their own response to the Waterford submission.
After that, the matter will go to the Minister of the Environment for a decision.
In a nutshell, according to Ned Quinn, the heart of the matter is an economic one.
The presence of Belview port makes the disputed area Kilkenny county council's biggest generator of revenue outside of Kilkenny city.
It's no surprise, then, that Waterford want to muscle in on what, with the construction of a new bridge and the completion of the motorway to Dublin, will shortly become even more of a prize.
"We want the area to develop economically, and we don't understand why the two local authorities can't administer it jointly without the residents being forced to lose their identity, " says Quinn.
"The strength of Kilkenny GAA lies in the work being done to promote Gaelic games in the schools and the parishes. The loss of any one parish would be very serious."
Born in Kilkenny. Played in Kilkenny. Die in Waterford?
God and the generations of past south Kilkenny heroes forbid.
irishgolfonline
(Power User)
Posted:
02-Nov-2005 11:22
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Originally posted by Hud:
Enda McEvoy's piece on the South KK/Waterford Issue
Leave it lie Hud, it shows that KK people are happy with the way our county is laid out and that the landgrabbing Deise folk should leave us alone.
Please put this to rest and stop WUMMING the sh1t out of it.
kilkennycat2005
(1,395 Posts)
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02-Nov-2005 12:12
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Originally posted by Hud:
Would be interested in comment on this.
A balanced appraisal or an hysterical over-reaction?
Over 12,000 objections to the proposals . . . 5,000 of them generated by the Kilkenny county board, another 1,400 emanating from Slieverue itself . . . were recently handed in at Waterford city hall.
Kilkenny county council have until 26 January next year to submit their own response to the Waterford submission.
After that, the matter will go to the Minister of the Environment for a decision.
In a nutshell, according to Ned Quinn, the heart of the matter is an economic one..
The KK GAA have played a blinder on this one thankfully.
moby_dick
(240 Posts)
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02-Nov-2005 13:02
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Limerick city has similar problems trying to expand into Clare and County limerick so that they can get more rates. Most of the action (retail parks and all that other rubbish) seems to be out in the suburbs these days.
Jinto
(1,153 Posts)
Posted:
02-Nov-2005 13:23
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Class piece of balanced journalism.
Would you ask me brother if I'm a liar.
kilkennycat2005
(1,395 Posts)
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02-Nov-2005 13:30
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The caring Waterford City Council brigade, with no Eurovision to attend this year, have found an alternative according to today's local press.
Another junket – another waste of taxpayer’s money - Sinn Fein Councillors
Sinn Féin Waterford City Councillors David Cullinane and Joe Kelly have reacted furiously to news that four councillors and a number of officials are traveling to Europe to attend Sail Training Internationals Annual Conference. Both councilors Cullinane and Kelly only found out about the trip through a third party not connected with the council. Four city councilors, the City Manager, a number of officials and the city councils tall ships event manager are all traveling courtesy of the taxpayer.
Cllr David Cullinane said:
“The Tall Ships event was a hugely positive one and was beneficial to the people of Waterford and beyond. On the back of this success it is important that we maintain good relations with Sail Training International. It is also important for Waterford to be represented at its annual conference but I fail to see the need for so many people from the city to attend. Is it really necessary for eight council representatives, including four city councilors to travel? Surely it would be more than suffice for the City Manager, the Tall Ships event manager, the event chairperson and one councillor to attend.”
“This is another example of wasting taxpayer’s money. There isn’t a week goes by when the council is not citing resources as an impediment to delivering on much needed local projects and services. There seems to be no accountability and transparency when it comes to foreign trips. At the end of the day it is our money which is being spent. Those responsible have succeeded in turning what would have otherwise been a worthwhile beneficial trip into a questionable junket. It is my view and the view of Councillor Joe Kelly that the City Council and the City Manager have serious questions to answer in relation to this.”
(from Waterford Today 3/11/2005)
DéiseGirl
(4,030 Posts)
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02-Nov-2005 13:54
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Originally posted by kilkennycat2005:
The caring Waterford City Council brigade, with no Eurovision to attend this year, have found an alternative according to today's local press.
Another junket – another waste of taxpayer’s money - Sinn Fein Councillors
Sinn Féin Waterford City Councillors David Cullinane and Joe Kelly have reacted furiously to news that four councillors and a number of officials are traveling to Europe to attend Sail Training Internationals Annual Conference. Both councilors Cullinane and Kelly only found out about the trip through a third party not connected with the council. Four city councilors, the City Manager, a number of officials and the city councils tall ships event manager are all traveling courtesy of the taxpayer.
Cllr David Cullinane said:
“The Tall Ships event was a hugely positive one and was beneficial to the people of Waterford and beyond. On the back of this success it is important that we maintain good relations with Sail Training International. It is also important for Waterford to be represented at its annual conference but I fail to see the need for so many people from the city to attend. Is it really necessary for eight council representatives, including four city councilors to travel? Surely it would be more than suffice for the City Manager, the Tall Ships event manager, the event chairperson and one councillor to attend.”
“This is another example of wasting taxpayer’s money. There isn’t a week goes by when the council is not citing resources as an impediment to delivering on much needed local projects and services. There seems to be no accountability and transparency when it comes to foreign trips. At the end of the day it is our money which is being spent. Those responsible have succeeded in turning what would have otherwise been a worthwhile beneficial trip into a questionable junket. It is my view and the view of Councillor Joe Kelly that the City Council and the City Manager have serious questions to answer in relation to this.”
(from Waterford Today 3/11/2005)
So when are you moving from that awful place?
kilkennycat2005
(1,395 Posts)
Posted:
02-Nov-2005 13:56
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Originally posted by DéiseGirl:
[So when are you moving from that awful place?
No problem with the place "as such".
The "land grabbing" city council different story altogether.
vodafone
(122 Posts)
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02-Nov-2005 14:03
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KK folk would be better off just admitting that the objections to this, just as it was with Clare people when Limerick came looking for land, is that Waterford is a sh*thole and KK is a grand place to live.
Glengooly-Guy
(1,586 Posts)
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02-Nov-2005 14:15
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Those interviewed by McEvoy seem to be worried that if WCC get their way on this expansion that in 10-15 years they will go again and try and annex more land taking in Mooncoin, Mullinavat and Carraigeen, followed by another push in 10-15 years when Ballyhale, Knocktopher, Dunamaggin, Stoneyford etc will become part of Waterford Cityand then one final push maybe 45-50 years from now when Waterford City Council will go for the big one and attempt to take Kilkenny itself
LimerickNomad
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02-Nov-2005 14:17
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Originally posted by Glengooly-Guy:
Those interviewed by McEvoy seem to be worried that if WCC get their way on this expansion that in 10-15 years they will go again and try and annex more land taking in Mooncoin, Mullinavat and Carraigeen, followed by another push in 10-15 years when Ballyhale, Knocktopher, Dunamaggin, Stoneyford etc will become part of Waterford Cityand then one final push maybe 45-50 years from now when Waterford City Council will go for the big one and attempt to take Kilkenny itself
Maybe then they (WD) might win back Liam, perhaps before
the 100th anniversary of their last victory back in 1959?
kilkennycat2005
(1,395 Posts)
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02-Nov-2005 14:28
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Kilkenny is one of the bottom 10 counties in Ireland in terms of population. "Our success rate in inter-county hurling probably masks that.
Made great reading that part to all KK people.
Fair dues to Ned Quinn.
spread it out wide
(1,356 Posts)
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02-Nov-2005 14:30
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Originally posted by DéiseGirl:
So when are you moving from that awful place?
DG, he can run but he can't hide - eventually Waterford CC will attempt to take over wherever he goes, so he's better staying put.
kilkennycat2005
(1,395 Posts)
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02-Nov-2005 14:33
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Originally posted by spread it out wide:
[DG, he can run but he can't hide - eventually Waterford CC will attempt to take over wherever he goes, so he's better staying put.
LOL
sid wallace
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02-Nov-2005 18:37
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As usual with Enda, it's a well written and researched piece. Needless to say, one might question his balance on this but what harm.
Ultimately he misses the point, the issue has nothing to do with hurling, just the mundane business of local government. He is not alone in missing that point however, so I wouldn't fault him for that.
As for Tullogher and Rosbercon being taken by Wexford, as the inventor of that particular piece of raimeis I feel a particular pride that that is now being taken as fact by reputable newspapers.
An Fear Rua
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02-Nov-2005 20:51
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Originally posted by sid wallace:
As for Tullogher and Rosbercon being taken by Wexford, as the inventor of that particular piece of raimeis I feel a particular pride that that is now being taken as fact by reputable newspapers.
Good man, sid! I like it. Not as reputable, though, after the way they 'researched' the demise of Liam Lawlor.
LimerickNomad
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02-Nov-2005 21:34
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Originally posted by An Fear Rua:
Good man, sid! I like it. Not as reputable, though, after the way they 'researched' the demise of Liam Lawlor.
Wouldn't be the first time that information "planted" hereabouts
has appeared in print.
Hattons Grace
(76 Posts)
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02-Nov-2005 21:54
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Originally posted by sid wallace:
As usual with Enda, it's a well written and researched piece. Needless to say, one might question his balance on this but what harm.
Ultimately he misses the point, the issue has nothing to do with hurling, just the mundane business of local government. He is not alone in missing that point however, so I wouldn't fault him for that.
As for Tullogher and Rosbercon being taken by Wexford, as the inventor of that particular piece of raimeis I feel a particular pride that that is now being taken as fact by reputable newspapers.
Seeing as how he's the HURLING correspondant with the paper , and not the LOCAL GOVERMENT correspondant , maybe he was just doing a piece at the request of the Sports Editor
ps - so your admitting to just stirring it on that raimeis of a tread you started , tut , tut.
ps2 - still say its just about rates , and I'd still prefer the devil in know etc
prairie
(324 Posts)
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03-Nov-2005 00:03
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Originally posted by sid wallace:
As usual with Enda, it's a well written and researched piece. Needless to say, one might question his balance on this but what harm.
Ultimately he misses the point, the issue has nothing to do with hurling, just the mundane business of local government. He is not alone in missing that point however, so I wouldn't fault him for that.
As for Tullogher and Rosbercon being taken by Wexford, as the inventor of that particular piece of raimeis I feel a particular pride that that is now being taken as fact by reputable newspapers.
Just a clarification. In relation to your last point it should be pointed out that Rosbercon, village and church, has already been taken into Co Wexford. Rates are paid in New Ross and for electoral purposes it is part of Wexford consituency. The remainder of Rosbercon parish is administered by Kilkenny Co Council. For GAA purposes the club boundary is still the river Barrow
Hermes
(484 Posts)
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03-Nov-2005 09:03
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Originally posted by sid wallace:
Ultimately he misses the point, the issue has nothing to do with hurling, just the mundane business of local government.
I have said it several times, Sid - you have no real understanding or indeed empathy with this topic (also admitted by yourself) so it is hard for you to understand what is involved.
I have said it several times, Sid - you have no real understanding or indeed empathy with this topic (also admitted by yourself) so it is hard for you to understand what is involved.
Originally posted by sid wallace:
As for Tullogher and Rosbercon being taken by Wexford, as the inventor of that particular piece of raimeis I feel a particular pride that that is now being taken as fact by reputable newspapers.
That particular piece of 'raimeis' as you now refer to it, was one of your 'logical' planks regarding building up reasons that 5,000 acres of south Kilkenny should now be administered by Waterford. What else did you 'make up' to amuse yourself?
kilkennycat2005
(1,395 Posts)
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03-Nov-2005 09:17
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Originally posted by sid wallace:
As for Tullogher and Rosbercon being taken by Wexford, as the inventor of that particular piece of raimeis I feel a particular pride that that is now being taken as fact by reputable newspapers.
These land-grab atempts usually only happen when Mount Sion are county champions!
Now that the Gunners have deposed them it will probably die a natural death anyway.
sid wallace
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03-Nov-2005 18:34
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I suppose ultimately Enda's article bears out the notion that hurling aside there are no compelling reasons for opposing the "land grab".
One might also conclude in reading the article, that despite the comments of some of the better contributors here over the years, that to the extent that there is a Kilkenny identity, it is wrapped up entirely - it seems - in hurling.
paulm
(6,474 Posts)
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03-Nov-2005 18:52
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What the hell was McEvoy doing writing about local KK boundary issues on a national media HURLING forum?
If i wanted to spend my sundays reading about a few silage pits being covered in etc, i'd buy the farmers journal. about time that lad got a kick in the hole, he's gone very comfy in his current brief.
Will he be writing about Limerick proposed extension into Clare next week, and its possible effects on our hurling fortunes, will he fcuk. A total abuse of priviledge, but i suppose, where KK are concerned, he's never pretended to be objective.
spread it out wide
(1,356 Posts)
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04-Nov-2005 09:05
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Originally posted by sid wallace:
I suppose ultimately Enda's article bears out the notion that hurling aside there are no compelling reasons for opposing the "land grab".
One might also conclude in reading the article, that despite the comments of some of the better contributors here over the years, that to the extent that there is a Kilkenny identity, it is wrapped up entirely - it seems - in hurling.
Or maybe Enda, a hurling journalist, was simply looking at one angle of the land grab - the one he would know most about? And to think that people find it surprising that Enda's articles would look at this side of things - people that you might have thought would have the ability to work that out. Take a bow, Sid.
kilkennycat2005
(1,395 Posts)
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04-Nov-2005 09:28
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Originally posted by paulm:
What the hell was McEvoy doing writing about local KK boundary issues on a national media HURLING forum?
If i wanted to spend my sundays reading about a few silage pits being covered in etc, i'd buy the farmers journal. about time that lad got a kick in the hole, he's gone very comfy in his current brief..
The farmer's journal has MOM rather than MITM covering GAA each week . In fact several sports pages as Pee Flynn says on multiple house ownership , "you should try it sometime".
Great piece a few weeks ago on the KK v Galway AI semi & a contrast with the premiership game also played that day on SKY.
That one not online but....
The All-Ireland Hurling Final
Sunday is a special day on the sporting calendar of Ireland. The whole country will stop at 3.30pm to watch the hurlers of Cork and Galway do battle for the Liam McCarthy Cup.
Over 80,000 people will be in attendance, Cork fans seated beside their Galway counterparts in the most magnificent stadium in Europe. Ex-pats from far-flung locations – such as America, Australia the Far East and South America – will tune in via satellite, internet and there will be someone listening by mobile, as a relation or friend holds the radio up to the phone.
This week is a wonderful few days to be a Cork or Galway native.
Each county is festooned in colours and the anticipation will be seeping through every Rebel and Tribesman’s veins.
It is unique and it is ours.
The game of hurling belongs to us and occasions like Sunday are to be savoured. Thousands of neutrals will be in Croke Park, many of them regulars to this annual showpiece. Forget your soccer and rugby internationals; this is the real thing for entertainment and atmosphere.
Sometimes we take this country of ours for granted. Similar occasions the world over involve policing on a military scale, as rivals fans are segregated from each other and mounted police escort fans to and from railway stations. Not so this Sunday.
Similar occasions the world over are wrapped in hype, in a naked attempt to justify the exorbitant price of tickets to such events. The entertainment on offer rarely matches the overblown expectation. Not so this Sunday.
Some 30 odd players will push themselves to the limit on Sunday for their county jersey. They will be playing for family, friends and neighbours. And they will give everything.
On Wednesday night, the Irish soccer team played their French counterparts in Lansdowne Road. The contrast between sporting events could not be clearer. Twenty two millionaires gave their all playing on a bumpy pitch before only 33,000 supporters, a capacity restricted by the limitations of a decrepit stadium. There was diving, acting on a grand scale, countless stoppages and abuse verbally and physically on show throughout the evening. A wonderful example for young children who are in thrall to this game? A few miles up the road the GAA fraternity will enjoy an intense afternoon on a totally different level. There will be marvellous roars of approval when the teams bound out onto the field, a parade of the two sets of gladiators, a rendition of the national anthem that can only be heard to be believed, the sheer expectation can be overwhelming – but this build-up will be more than matched by the product.
At half time, both sets of supporters will mingle freely and talk about what they have seen and what they will see. When it is over the winners will be congratulated instantly by the gallant losers, as thousands stream onto the pitch to hail their heroes. The heroes they have grown up with, gone to school with, worked with, share a drink with, lived with.
There is nothing like it in the world. And we are lucky to have it, the game of hurling and what goes on around it. All-Ireland hurling final day may just be the most Irish day of them all.
Any chance of a ticket?
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