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Topic: Alleged Perjurer in the Dail- Why no calls for Sanctions?
Abruzzi Spur (1,083 Posts)	Posted: 09-Feb-2010 09:27	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Abruzzi Spur (1,083 Posts)	He`lll romp home again in Limerick I bet? Even if Michael Dell is on record as saying similar to ms McCarthy here. __- O’Dea’s perjury is a sad sign of our lying times-Justine McCarthy Willie O’Dea is the most powerful politician in Limerick. His voluble voice at the cabinet table gives him leverage disproportionate to the pecking order of his government portfolio. He may be merely the minister for defence in a state that has never fought a war, but his bullish personality confers a degree of influence that outweighs his official position. In Limerick, Willie is the establishment’s top dog. What he says holds sway. He is seen to enjoy the favour of Fianna Fail’s ruling elite. When they need someone to quench the fires of controversy with a tempest of outraged rhetoric, they send for Willie. He happens to be a qualified barrister too, a profession that trades on the assumed veracity and the maximum impact of carefully chosen words. He has lectured law students in university. One Sunday newspaper has even given him a soap box. He may lack the magnetism of Donagh O’Malley, the flintiness of Des O’Malley, or the career achievements of Michael Noonan but, in the all too often tragic streets of Limerick, he commands respect. Last April, after Roy Collins was shot dead because one of his relatives testified at a gangster’s trial, O’Dea was one of the first to sign the book of condolences. He urged the citizens of Limerick to do likewise, in a demonstration to criminals that they would “stand behind the forces of law and order”. It was a noble call to fight arms with the might of the pen. What the people of Limerick did not know was that, at the very time their most senior politician was exhorting them to keep faith with the administration of justice, O’Dea was perjuring himself in the High Court. On April 29, he denied in an affidavit that he had accused Maurice Quinlivan, a Sinn Fein local-election candidate, of owning a brothel, as had been reported by the Limerick Leader. Quinlivan had applied for an injunction stopping O’Dea from repeating the claim during the election campaign. The court refused to grant the injunction. But O’Dea was caught red-handed: the newspaper produced a recording of the interview. In it, the minister said: “I suppose I’m going a bit too far when I say this, but I’d like to ask Mr Quinlivan is the brothel still closed?” In a written statement to the court on December 21, he conceded that he had, after all, made the remarks and that “the implications and statements were false and defamatory”. He withdrew them. One of the biggest reasons why Limerick’s criminal gangs continue to lord it over the city is because they have terrified potential witnesses into silence. A chilling freezeframe in this modern tale of subversion was the triumphalist exit from court of an accused Limerick criminal giving the finger to media cameras, after his trial collapsed because a witness was too frightened to give evidence. When O’Dea signed the book of condolences for Collins he told journalists he was aware of a number of witnesses to criminal activity who were afraid to give evidence in court. Only for the valour of individual judges, gardai, lawyers and those citizens who withstand the threat inherent in entering the witness box, the law and order beloved of the Limerick East TD would have disintegrated by now. Yet he behaves as if — like paying taxes — the duty to tell the truth in court is only for little people. Of course, perjury is a criminal offence no matter who you are. Ambivalence about truth-telling pervades our society. O’Dea’s disregard for it has been subliminally endorsed by cabinet colleagues, not one of whom — including Brian Cowen, the taoiseach, and Dermot Ahern, the minister for justice — has publicly commented on his disgrace. When Senator Eugene Regan raised the matter in the Seanad last week, the House spluttered with indignation — not at O’Dea’s lying on oath, but at Regan’s temerity for mentioning it. Perhaps the license to say virtually whatever they like has loosened politicians’ tongues. and lawyers’ too. There are two cathedrals of privileged expression in this country: a politician speaking in the Oireachtas or a lawyer speaking in a courtroom may not be sued for defamation. While the ordinary citizen must swear to tell the truth before testifying in court, there is no requirement for lawyers to do so, the bizzare presumption being that they automatically do so. The courts themselves have lapsed into complacency. When was the last time a witness in a civil law case, where the monetary and reputational stakes can be high, was charged with perjury? What fool believes that no such litigant lies on oath? Yet still we jump on our high horse whenever anyone accuses us of telling lies. Remember Ray Burke’s self-exculpatory speech in the Dail? Remember Liam Lawlor’s fantastical harangues in the planning tribunal? Remember Bertie Ahern’s denials that he made sterling transactions and his detour to the High Court to prevent the tribunal cross-examining him about inconsistencies in his utterances to Dail Eireann? And what about Senator Joe O’Toole’s admission that he gave “incorrect information” about the state’s €30m purchase of land from his brother-in-law for a new prison in north Dublin? These unpunished falsehoods have a trickle-down effect. Last spring, a truck hit the back of a car in Dublin. The trucker said it was the fault of the woman driving the car, even though his lane had merged into hers, because, he argued, he was blind-sided and it was her responsibility to ensure he did not collide with her. The woman insisted on calling the gardai but law enforcers declined to visit the scene once they ascertained nobody had been injured. The trucker said they should each pay for the damage to their respective vehicles. The woman protested. The woman reported the accident to her insurers who engaged a solicitor. Just before Christmas, she was informed that a “witness” had materialised who would testify (falsely ) that she had swerved out from a bus lane into the path of the truck. The insurance company was sceptical about the credibility of the “witness” but thought it too risky to go to court and expect a judge to waste taxpayers’ time testing the reliability of his evidence. The upshot is that the woman is likely to lose her no-claims bonus after 30 years’ driving. This is the same cause-and-effect circle argued by Michael McDowell when he was minister for justice and said cocaine users were implicit in gangland murders. If the courts cannot trust a government minister to tell the truth, why on earth should they demand it from Joe Citizen?
long danny (4,403 Posts)	Posted: 09-Feb-2010 09:55	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
long danny (4,403 Posts)	I`m not keen on McCarthy as a rule but this is a very good piece of writing. I remember hearing about the Quinlivan case from a friend of mine who knows him. He said that it was absolutely amazing what O`Dea had said and he could not understand how he got away with it. But the moustache with the politician attached will be elected and at the top of the class with the biggest vote. However the thing that amazes me is that with the huge vote he gets himself he still only manages to bring in one other with him.
twiceasnice97 (9,233 Posts)	Posted: 09-Feb-2010 10:01	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
twiceasnice97 (9,233 Posts)	considering that he is a senior cabinet minister and a barrister it is stunning that he has recieved such a free ride
Ballybrown bruiser (383 Posts)	Posted: 09-Feb-2010 12:58	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Ballybrown bruiser (383 Posts)	Originally posted by twiceasnice97: considering that he is a senior cabinet minister and a barrister it is stunning that he has recieved such a free ride Willie is a loose cannon and always will be. He`s the type of fella that will top the poll in the Limerick for the rest of his days, but he can`t go much higher in the cabinet. Surely. He`s a "character" as people say and because he has a bit of a neck on him he will get votes. A bit like Lowry in Tipperary, Beverly in Mayo, when the rest of the country laughs at and attacks the local, his own people defend him. We have a real problem with the quality of politicians in this country. Too many teachers, solicitors and auctioneers - all minding seats till the next election. O`Dea is the perfect example of the all politics is local mantra, he`ll be a TD in Limerick as long as he wants.
long danny (4,403 Posts)	Posted: 09-Feb-2010 13:51	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
long danny (4,403 Posts)	Yet another piece of guff. Read it again for yourself or better still get someone to read it for you. Main Entry: hyp·o·crite Pronunciation: \ˈ..hi-pə..-ˌ..kritFunction: noun Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritē..s actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai Date: 13th century 1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion 2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings — hypocrite adjective Just about sums you up. This message has been edited - 09-feb-2010 @ 16:53
google (599 Posts)	Posted: 09-Feb-2010 14:07	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
google (599 Posts)	Yawn!! now I thought I told you already to weed the garden! This message has been edited - 09-feb-2010 @ 16:54
blueprint (6,179 Posts)	Posted: 09-Feb-2010 14:08	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
blueprint (6,179 Posts)	Originally posted by Abruzzi Spur: Perjurer in the Dail- Why no calls for Sanctions? After reading the article there , I think it`s a bit of a storm in a teacup really , I thought from the topic heading that this was going to be alot more serious .
twiceasnice97 (9,233 Posts)	Posted: 09-Feb-2010 14:21	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
twiceasnice97 (9,233 Posts)	Originally posted by blueprint: After reading the article there , I think it`s a bit of a storm in a teacup really , I thought from the topic heading that this was going to be alot more serious . a senior minister and barrister attempts to corrupt the political process in a deliberate attempt to begin a smear campaign against an opponent. he is caught red handed but denies it. he then commits perjury in front of a high court judge and there are no consequences in either his legal or political careers and thats a storm in a tea cup. the question would arise what would these boys have to do to stir people at all.
Alf Tupper (329 Posts)	Posted: 09-Feb-2010 14:21	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Alf Tupper (329 Posts)	He`s been exposed as being a lying snivelling rat of a perjurer. It just shows the dumbing down of responsibility taking in politics that has occurred under Ahern`s and now Cowen`s watch What exactly would a Minister have to do in this Government to actually merit resignation or sacking. I depair for this Fianna Fail crowd. The party once stood for something. Now all they stand for is power at all costs. Lemass, Lynch and Colley et all must be turning in their graves. This message has been edited - 09-feb-2010 @ 15:09
luimneach abu (1,987 Posts)	Posted: 09-Feb-2010 15:03	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
luimneach abu (1,987 Posts)	It`s slander, and he should never have made the comment. He was caught with his pants down. O`Dea is nothing but a thick c**""" This message has been edited - 09-feb-2010 @ 16:55
long danny (4,403 Posts)	Posted: 09-Feb-2010 15:17	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
long danny (4,403 Posts)	Originally posted by google: Yawn!! now I thought I told you already to weed the garden! Seeing as you contradicted yourself in your first post I think it`s you that needs to weed the garden, buddy.
Sa Bhaile (1,797 Posts)	Posted: 09-Feb-2010 15:53	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Sa Bhaile (1,797 Posts)	It`s slander, and he should never have made the comment. He was caught with his pants down. O`Dea is nothing but a thick c**""" [/QUOTE] This message has been edited - 09-feb-2010 @ 16:55
long danny (4,403 Posts)	Posted: 09-Feb-2010 16:01	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
long danny (4,403 Posts)	Very interesting to see the Limerick lads on here having little or no time for the moustached one. How many are in his constituency though?
Sa Bhaile (1,797 Posts)	Posted: 09-Feb-2010 16:15	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Sa Bhaile (1,797 Posts)	I`m not - but the majority of my close relations are. I would say most of them have voted for him at some stage too. Sometimes I hear them turn against him (and FF ) but they end up returning to the fold at some stage I find. Options for voters aren`t great I`m afraid, no matter what part of the country you`re in. By the way, thanks for the reply re asbestos, danny - recycling centres sent me to HSA or county council (I thought I was ringing the council when I contacted the recycling centre but that service seems to be contracted out to Indiver ) . I think my relation was down the road of a HSA/Council list already but to no avail - I`ll have to talk to him again about it. Go raibh maith agat ar aon nós - there`s no mad rush and we`ll get someone eventually. Originally posted by long danny: Very interesting to see the Limerick lads on here having little or no time for the moustached one. How many are in his constituency though?
An Fear Rua (Editor)	Posted: 09-Feb-2010 16:57	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
An Fear Rua (Editor)	long danny and google - This is a topic about a serious issue. Stop dragging it down to the level of the school yard with your childish tit-for-tat personalised comments. Take a good look at your carry-on and cop yourselves on. Consider this as a final warning.
long danny (4,403 Posts)	Posted: 09-Feb-2010 18:33	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
long danny (4,403 Posts)	Originally posted by An Fear Rua: long danny and google - This is a topic about a serious issue. Stop dragging it down to the level of the school yard with your childish tit-for-tat personalised comments. Take a good look at your carry-on and cop yourselves on. Consider this as a final warning. Fair enough boss man. However it is clear from my first post I was willing to contribute to the debate in a proper fashion. Google came in with his usual foolishness and I was the target of that, not the topic title or subject. I appreciate this is your site and the warning is duly noted.
google (599 Posts)	Posted: 09-Feb-2010 22:08	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
google (599 Posts)	Originally posted by An Fear Rua: long danny and google - This is a topic about a serious issue. Stop dragging it down to the level of the school yard with your childish tit-for-tat personalised comments. Take a good look at your carry-on and cop yourselves on. Consider this as a final warning. With respect he was going on about his usual anti FF stuff which I felt obliged to counteract. He just came up with some dictionary rubbish which had nothing to do with the topic. Well I have taken a good long look at myself and apparently I need a shave!! In all seriousness your warning is duly noted.
Seamus McSpud (990 Posts)	Posted: 09-Feb-2010 22:57	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Seamus McSpud (990 Posts)	Anybody know if the DPP`s office are looking into it with a few to pressing charges? As has been reported here Senator Eugene Regan quite correctly tried to raise this very serious issue in the Seanad last week but was blocked from pursuing it by the Cathaoirleach.
backintheday (4,619 Posts)	Posted: 09-Feb-2010 23:08	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
backintheday (4,619 Posts)	]Anybody know if the DPP`s office are looking into it with a few to pressing charges? Nah, AFR took the lads aside and they kissed and made up. It was just a common or garden disagreement....move along nothing to see here kind of thing. Not sure about Willie O Dea though.
KeepOnHurling (3,223 Posts)	Posted: 10-Feb-2010 03:56	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
KeepOnHurling (3,223 Posts)	Could you imagine the reaction if Maurice Quinliven had been making up lies and slandering Wilie O`Dea ? I fully agree that O`Dea should face criminal charges
PODSY (1,021 Posts)	Posted: 10-Feb-2010 09:59	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
PODSY (1,021 Posts)	Originally posted by KeepOnHurling: Could you imagine the reaction if Maurice Quinliven had been making up lies and slandering Wilie O`Dea ? I fully agree that O`Dea should face criminal charges Nail on the head. This message has been edited - 10-feb-2010 @ 10:00
long danny (4,403 Posts)	Posted: 10-Feb-2010 10:15	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
long danny (4,403 Posts)	Originally posted by KeepOnHurling: Could you imagine the reaction if Maurice Quinliven had been making up lies and slandering Wilie O`Dea ? I fully agree that O`Dea should face criminal charges Interesting point. Willie would be jumping up and down in Faranshone like a mad little leprachaun.
Arraref! (954 Posts)	Posted: 14-Feb-2010 14:53	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Arraref! (954 Posts)	I see the Sunday Times have revived this as a front page story after the bould Willie had the neck to seek an apology, damages and legal costs over last week`s column. This after being caught in an outright lie, genuine mistake my hole. There is brazen, ladies and gentlemen, and then there is FF brazen
bottomoftheleft (392 Posts)	Posted: 14-Feb-2010 15:08	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
bottomoftheleft (392 Posts)	There is the truth as we know it. There is the truth according to FF. In the former world Willie is a liar. In the latter Willie is incapable of falsehood, unfortunately we are ruled by people who occupy the latter world.
long danny (4,403 Posts)	Posted: 14-Feb-2010 15:19	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
long danny (4,403 Posts)	Seeing that people went to jail for contempt in order to save their lives why is this gombeen man not being held in contempt also?

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