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Topic: Child Killer, Jon Venables
Yojimbo
(13,947 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 02:45
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With him being in the headlines, 17 years on, I just clicked on the Irish Times article
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0308/breaking64.html
I didn`t recall him looking so `angelic`
 (makes the whole case even more scary, remembering the CCTV footage of him at the shopping mall, leading Jamie Bulger astray, presumably that he had evil intentions planned ) 

Scary what could go through the mind of a kid: just hearing reports now of his apparent `death wish` makes you grateful for the kind of upbringing you have had, and that there literally is always somebody who`s got it worse than you, whenever you feel like whinging about what `the other guy` has got
The Silver Fox
(604 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 09:10
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Originally posted by Yojimbo:
With him being in the headlines, 17 years on, I just clicked on the Irish Times article
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0308/breaking64.html
I didn`t recall him looking so `angelic`
  (makes the whole case even more scary, remembering the CCTV footage of him at the shopping mall, leading Jamie Bulger astray, presumably that he had evil intentions planned  )  

Scary what could go through the mind of a kid: just hearing reports now of his apparent `death wish` makes you grateful for the kind of upbringing you have had, and that there literally is always somebody who`s got it worse than you, whenever you feel like whinging about what `the other guy` has got

I find it horrible the way the press have taken this case in the uk and just basically made a massive deal about it, wihtout knowing any real facts. It`s times like these I really dispise the Rupert Murtoch media machine.One minute he is brought back for breaching his terms of parole, the next he is sexual predator, it seems that they are just throwing accusations wildly until one sticks.What those young boys did was inexcusable, but we have a scenario where we have papers saying what a waste of tax payers money for giving him a new identity was and then bascially trying to do anything possible to out his identity resulting in him having to get a new identity at the tax payers account. And the common trend is that Murdochs rags will sell more papers and still be able to stand on the moral highground.
Plastic Paddy
(702 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 09:33
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Originally posted by Yojimbo:
Child Killer, Jon Venables

It was always said that Thomson was the evil one from a disturbed background and that Venables had a good upbringing
The Doppelganger
(588 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 10:59
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Originally posted by Plastic Paddy:

It was always said that Thomson was the evil one from a disturbed background and that Venables had a good upbringing


thompsons reaction, or lack of one, to what they did is why he was branded evil and rightly so

imho, venables acting out now shows what he did is still playing on his mind and affecting him badly, where as the other fella has a baby and is carrying on like nothing happened, that freaks me out alot more
beauty
(1,394 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 13:49
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Originally posted by The Silver Fox:


I find it horrible the way the press have taken this case in the uk and just basically made a massive deal about it, wihtout knowing any real facts. It`s times like these I really dispise the Rupert Murtoch media machine.One minute he is brought back for breaching his terms of parole, the next he is sexual predator, it seems that they are just throwing accusations wildly until one sticks.What those young boys did was inexcusable, but we have a scenario where we have papers saying what a waste of tax payers money for giving him a new identity was and then bascially trying to do anything possible to out his identity resulting in him having to get a new identity at the tax payers account. And the common trend is that Murdochs rags will sell more papers and still be able to stand on the moral highground.

Thats it really, the Papers over here cannot wait to jump on that bandwagon and masks themselves as the ever caring presence of the British people.....and oh yeah, if we sell a few papers to boot....all the better. They have senior editors on most news channels now trying to defend their `caring` position...
This message has been edited - 09-mar-2010 @ 13:49
billy sinnott
(278 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 14:12
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Closer to home... Does anyone know where Wayne O` Donohue is now?
Son of Boru
(368 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 14:22
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Originally posted by billy sinnott:
Closer to home... Does anyone know where Wayne O` Donohue is now?

According to this report his in Uni in Leeds, and not doing too bad for himself either by the looks of it. Just more than 5 years since he killed Robert Holohan.

http://www.sundayworld.com/columnists/index.php?aid=3963
arock
(1,484 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 14:37
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People want legal retribution as they feel dangerious mental illiness is just an excuse to get a light sentance. This results in deranged disturbed people getting out. In the courts yesterday was a prime example of a serial rapist with a lot of previous committing a horrific rape. Some people are just ill and need to be treated as such not by the courts or by legal judges who have always been found wanting in this regard.
But there are some crimes and some killers/cases which the law cannot quite deal with. The crimes committed on Jamie Bulger, the manner of the lads abduction, the manner of his systematic mutaliation and torture challenges everyone, be you a hang em up or die-hard liberal. The legal system quite rightly protects these two child murderers from summary justice but you have to wonder what sort of "rehabilitation" they received in jail. The trial judge who released him in 2001 is now "worried" because they might be harmed. No apology from the legal system for getting it all so completely wrong. Sometimes you wonder who actually is the real victim maybe someone should apologise on Jamie Bulgers behalf for "being a victim".
DAF
(2,872 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 14:55
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Surely after what Venables and Thompson did they should never be released.The tortrured and killed a toddler and yet now they can live the rest of their lives in freedom.Regardless of the age they were when they committed the crime they should be forced to spend the rest of their lives in an institution.
greg
(1,715 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 17:10
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Originally posted by DAF:
Surely after what Venables and Thompson did they should never be released.The tortrured and killed a toddler and yet now they can live the rest of their lives in freedom.Regardless of the age they were when they committed the crime they should be forced to spend the rest of their lives in an institution.

Hanging would be too good for them after what they subjected that little boy to. The whole thing about their case was the premeditation involved as they had been lurking around that Bootle shopping mall for some time eyeing up potential victims and had stolen several items the same day. They used one of these items - blue paint to splash on young Jamie`s face before they tortured and killed him ruthlessly and without mercy. The case is obviously very rare but also particularly frightening given how easy it is for toddlers and young kids to wander off in shopping malls and public places.
moycullen14
(550 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 17:28
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Originally posted by DAF:
Surely after what Venables and Thompson did they should never be released.The tortrured and killed a toddler and yet now they can live the rest of their lives in freedom.Regardless of the age they were when they committed the crime they should be forced to spend the rest of their lives in an institution.

Was in the UK at the time and we had a toddler about the same age as Jamie Bolger. It`s safe to say that I never experienced a crime that affected people as much as this one. It really touched something primeval in us all, particularly those with young children. The brutality, arbitrariness and cold calculation of the child killers, never mind that they were children themselves made you wonder about the true nature of evil and it`s silent presence amongst us.

I`d consider myself liberal enough but, for me, they could have hung those two up on a lamppost and it wouldn`t have bothered me. Still wouldn`t, if I`m honest.

Older friends said that the only comparable crime they can remember was the Moors Murders in the 60`s, particularly the trial and the tapes.

Jesus, I still shiver thinking about it. God rest that poor child.
Yojimbo
(13,947 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 17:30
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Originally posted by The Doppelganger:



thompsons reaction, or lack of one, to what they did is why he was branded evil and rightly so

imho, venables acting out now shows what he did is still playing on his mind and affecting him badly, where as the other fella has a baby and is carrying on like nothing happened, that freaks me out alot more

Judging by the `mug shots` of the pair of them, Thompson might appear to have had the wrong background. Venables could easily have been yer local altar boy.
If he `went along` with Thompson and it was too late for him to back out it might make sense that his conscience has been getting at him whereas Thompson might be the true psychopath
Yojimbo
(13,947 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 17:33
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Originally posted by moycullen14:


Was in the UK at the time and we had a toddler about the same age as Jamie Bolger. It`s safe to say that I never experienced a crime that affected people as much as this one. It really touched something primeval in us all, particularly those with young children. The brutality, arbitrariness and cold calculation of the child killers, never mind that they were children themselves made you wonder about the true nature of evil and it`s silent presence amongst us.

I`d consider myself liberal enough but, for me, they could have hung those two up on a lamppost and it wouldn`t have bothered me. Still wouldn`t, if I`m honest.

Older friends said that the only comparable crime they can remember was the Moors Murders in the 60`s, particularly the trial and the tapes.

Jesus, I still shiver thinking about it. God rest that poor child.

I read Emlyn Williams book on The Moors Murderers about 20 years ago: I`d remembered the case when it happened, and was being reported in The Meeja at the time.
Of course Brady was an adult at the time and Myra Hindley was as close as, even if she was highly suggestible
blueblaa
(1,754 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 20:33
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It was an evil, evil crime but I always got the impression that a lot of people seem to think it is more evil because it was done by children. That I find strange.
Rebelcounty30
(1,462 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 20:55
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Originally posted by DAF:
Surely after what Venables and Thompson did they should never be released.The tortrured and killed a toddler and yet now they can live the rest of their lives in freedom.Regardless of the age they were when they committed the crime they should be forced to spend the rest of their lives in an institution.

Here Here DAF, anybody who has ever taken the time to read the full transcript of what they inflicted on that poor toddler that day would leave you questioning life itself. They tortured him. Tortured, dragged, punched, kicked him . Its too graphic to describe what else they did. They should have been locked up for ever full stop.
clangera
(1,136 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 21:39
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Originally posted by Rebelcounty30:


Here Here DAF, anybody who has ever taken the time to read the full transcript of what they inflicted on that poor toddler that day would leave you questioning life itself. They tortured him. Tortured, dragged, punched, kicked him . Its too graphic to describe what else they did. They should have been locked up for ever full stop.

This is the heart of the matter. I think its probably true to say that when stuff like this happens, it is actually adults who do it - adults who often have been screwed up by bad childhoods of abuse etc. But these were KIDS when they did it, and what they did was deliberate and horrible. I just cannot understand what could possibly have possessed the children to have done what they did to the little boy. It reminds me  (corny I know )  of Donald Pleasance in the Halloween films saying that Michael Myers was pure evil and should never be let out. Clearly the two children  (men now )  must have been beyond psychotherapy and should never have been let out.
long danny
(4,403 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 23:11
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Has there been any snction on the parents of these children,as they were, when they committed murder?

I just cannot get my head around this. On the one hand they were children, on the other they were murderers. I do not agree with the notion that they should have been jailed for life.
clangera
(1,136 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 23:20
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Originally posted by long danny:
Has there been any snction on the parents of these children,as they were, when they committed murder?

I just cannot get my head around this. On the one hand they were children, on the other they were murderers. I do not agree with the notion that they should have been jailed for life.

Its not about jail. Its about whether or not they are actually fit to be able to go out into society. What was going on in their mind and whatever it was could it be cured or reformed? If the answer is yes, then release them, if not, dont.
Yojimbo
(13,947 Posts)
Posted: 10-Mar-2010 01:20
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Originally posted by blueblaa:
It was an evil, evil crime but I always got the impression that a lot of people seem to think it is more evil because it was done by children. That I find strange.

Have you seen the Venables mug-shot, as reproduced in the Irish Times?
Check it out, and as you`re looking at it, consider this.
The expression on Venables` face is like that of a boy who`s been on an `awfully big adventure`, rather than of someone who`s partook in an `awfully evil crime`

Also think on:

1 ) . the family background in his young life that caused him to be so indifferent to whether someone lived or died.
2 ) . An adult who killed has generally been through a lot of living and the emotions that cause him to kill somebody are generally shaped by a lifetime of unpleasant experiences.
Its hard to imagine Venables, or Thompson having had anything like those experiences
GalwayDownUnder
(1,438 Posts)
Posted: 10-Mar-2010 01:23
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Originally posted by long danny:
Has there been any snction on the parents of these children,as they were, when they committed murder?

I just cannot get my head around this. On the one hand they were children, on the other they were murderers. I do not agree with the notion that they should have been jailed for life.

I`m with you on that one. Very confusing. I have great sympathy for the two boys. This doesn`t in anyway take away from what happened but they were only boys. The Moors murderers were adults.

Something inside me hopes that these two boys were themselves victims of a terrible childhood otherwise I`d have to accept that kids could be inherently evil.

I agree with you again on not being jailed for life. Despite what the liberals might say, jail doesn`t rehabilitate anyone, they get worse and most inmates reoffend when they are released. But not sure what could be done with them.

Anywhich way I`m confused. Three lives wasted.
ChevChelios
(162 Posts)
Posted: 10-Mar-2010 01:25
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to be honest, it makes my stomach turn thinking what happened that kid.
Avondhu abu
(1,215 Posts)
Posted: 10-Mar-2010 09:43
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Somewhere between Homicide and Suicide is Merseyside
suirboy
(776 Posts)
Posted: 10-Mar-2010 09:57
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Originally posted by GalwayDownUnder:


I`m with you on that one. Very confusing. I have great sympathy for the two boys. This doesn`t in anyway take away from what happened but they were only boys. The Moors murderers were adults.

Something inside me hopes that these two boys were themselves victims of a terrible childhood otherwise I`d have to accept that kids could be inherently evil.

I agree with you again on not being jailed for life. Despite what the liberals might say, jail doesn`t rehabilitate anyone, they get worse and most inmates reoffend when they are released. But not sure what could be done with them.

Anywhich way I`m confused. Three lives wasted.

Simple solution to stop them reoffending - hang the b*****dddds!!
Shoneen O Horlicks
(1,185 Posts)
Posted: 10-Mar-2010 10:18
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Haven`t there been other cases recently where children have tried to murder other, smaller children?
thegoalpost
(120 Posts)
Posted: 10-Mar-2010 11:47
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A shocking case that raises a lot of questions and the blame can be spread out.

Sadly some people should never be allowed have children and both sets of parents should have been held in someway accountable  at the time. One of the basic tenets of parenthood should be to instill a sense of right and wrong into your children, so they develop a moral compass of sorts, Both sets of parents should have been prosecuted for neglect of their parental responsibilities.

One would hope that both boys were evaluated by top Psychiatrists in their field to determine if one or both were indeed psychopaths and if there was a shadow of a doubt then they should err on the side of caution and have kept them both locked up indefinitely.

In my opinion neither of these boys should ever be allowed to be a father and never be allowed unsupervised access to children. Regardless of their age when you commit this kind of crime you have to bear certain consequences for your actions.

The people who made the decision to release the two boys, should face some consequences if/when they get it wrong.

I can`t imagine what it must be like for the parents of James Bulger, if anyone did that to my son I would personally want to put a stake through both their hearts and watch them die.

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