Mobile Version  |  Register  |  Login
home  |  speak out!  |  content zone archives  |  "speak out!" archives  |  vote on it  |  soap opera  |  pub crawl  |  links  |  contact us  |  search  
 Follow us! 
Speak Out! - Other Topics
Notices
"Speak Out!" Home  |  Topic Listing  |  Post New Topic  |  Post Reply
Yesterday's HOT topics  |  Today's HOT topics
 |  Jump to:  
First 1 2 Last
Select a page:   PageSize:   Page 1 of 2
Topic: why is it so unrealistic to think labour can form a majority goverment
carryharry
(4,804 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 11:11
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
last nite on the frontline a member of labour in the audience was basically sneered at by pat kenny at his opinion that labour could form a goverment without fine gael!
why is this so unbelievable? surely labour is an option as opposed to fine gael, i.e fianna fail in disguise! with a proper approach to new memebership whether it comes from a public or private sector status they can make an impression. the public is crying out for something new, more youthfull and not motivated by vested interests.more motivated by the interests of irelands people and less by profiteers.
LETRIP
(2,049 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 11:21
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Originally posted by carryharry:
last nite on the frontline a member of labour in the audience was basically sneered at by pat kenny at his opinion that labour could form a goverment without fine gael!
why is this so unbelievable? surely labour is an option as opposed to fine gael, i.e fianna fail in disguise! with a proper approach to new memebership whether it comes from a public or private sector status they can make an impression. the public is crying out for something new, more youthfull and not motivated by vested interests.more motivated by the interests of irelands people and less by profiteers.

With all due respect, who are they representing? We are facing into the biggest Industrial chaos in years, thousands are having their wages cut and losing their jobs. No leadership from the Labour party. The odd jibe from Rabbitte and Gilmore is all they offer, cant see the makings of a Government anyway.
twiceasnice97
(9,233 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 11:30
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Originally posted by LETRIP:


With all due respect, who are they representing? We are facing into the biggest Industrial chaos in years, thousands are having their wages cut and losing their jobs. No leadership from the Labour party. The odd jibe from Rabbitte and Gilmore is all they offer, cant see the makings of a Government anyway.

i am always curious about these type of assertions.

when you consider the facts that we have had fianna fail in power constantly almost with brief interludes of fine gael since they first went into government
that fianna fail is a party with no coherent political philosophy of any sort other than the pursuit of power
and that fine gael outside of maybe not being as nakedly corrupt as the soldiers issues have now no distinguishing features from them why is the bar set so high for the likes of labour on policy, the greens and the pds interms of a moral compass and sinn fein on economics?

sure they could hardly be worse than tweedledum and tweedledee
asdf
(332 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 11:33
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Originally posted by carryharry:
why is it so unrealistic to think labour can form a majority goverment

The political spectrum on the left is shared by too many parties. The vote is divided by FF, Labour, SF, Workers Party Socialists, Greens, etc…….
Chuck Norris
(475 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 12:20
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
FF, left??? Maybe just left of Ming the Merciless...
arock
(1,484 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 12:29
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Listening to Ivana Bacik lecturing about what its like to be unemployed is kinda stretching economic reality and political credibility. For sheer brass neck she almost matches Mary Lou. Just look at the Labour line up and ask them about the Public Service all you`ll get is waffle from both sides of their mouths. They are no better than whats in power at the minute - conversely they are no worse.
This message has been edited - 09-mar-2010 @ 12:29
asdf
(332 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 13:15
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Originally posted by Chuck Norris:
FF, left??? Maybe just left of Ming the Merciless...

It’s the nature of populist parties like FF to spread themselves across the political spectrum. So yes, FF also divides the vote on the left.

An example of their left wing thinking would be this social partnership fiasco. And don’t get me started on their socializing of bad debt from private companies like banks and developers.
This message has been edited - 09-mar-2010 @ 13:16
nlgbbbblth
(3,600 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 13:22
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Correct me if I am wrong but only one party in Ireland runs enough candidates to win a general election majority - FF. Maybe FG at a push.

Recipe for disaster................ and coalitions.
stones_off
(2,815 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 13:31
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Originally posted by nlgbbbblth:
Correct me if I am wrong but only one party in Ireland runs enough candidates to win a general election majority - FF. Maybe FG at a push.

Recipe for disaster................ and coalitions.

Is that true? It`s fairly interesting if it is. Is it actual numbers or a realistic percentage. Is it a case that Labour run less than 83 candidates or not enough above this figure, because you are not going to win every seat.
Ballybrown bruiser
(383 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 13:50
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
The first drawback to Labour forming the next government is the fact that they could not win 83 seats - they would not run enough of realistic candidates to win those seats.

Also the country, for all its hatred of the current government and its policies/blame for the current mess, we are traditionally a centrist population. We deviate a degree or two to the left or right on accoasion, but never to the extent necessary for a Labour government.

While the mood in the country is now bordering on radical - all politics is local. Labour would need to win 2 seats in a huge number of constituencies and that just cannot happen.

The PD`s won 14 seats only a couple of years into their existence, while the most Labour have ever managed is 32 and they`re in existence since the foundation of the state. That says it all.

The country, when they come into an election, will not trust the left wing to that extent.

Personally I agree with that. The `socialist` doctrine would never work in this country. The almost half a million people now unemployed are not overnight socialists. They won`t vote Labour en masse.

Somewhere else on the site someone asked why a new party hasn`t emerged. It`s a good question and probably down to funding and organisation. The closer we get to an election that might change.

But if one does emerge it won`t be of a socialist hue. It will be a centrist party with high profile candidates and a coherent alternative to dealing with our crisis.

stones_off
(2,815 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 13:58
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Originally posted by Ballybrown bruiser:
Somewhere else on the site someone asked why a new party hasn`t emerged. It`s a good question and probably down to funding and organisation. The closer we get to an election that might change.

I read in one of the sunday papers that there`s some nutcase in Dublin trying to set up a party similar to BNP. He said he`s got some 200 people lined up to become members.
pegasusIII
(4,075 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 16:12
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Originally posted by carryharry:
last nite on the frontline a member of labour in the audience was basically sneered at by pat kenny at his opinion that labour could form a goverment without fine gael!
why is this so unbelievable? surely labour is an option as opposed to fine gael, i.e fianna fail in disguise! with a proper approach to new memebership whether it comes from a public or private sector status they can make an impression. the public is crying out for something new, more youthfull and not motivated by vested interests.more motivated by the interests of irelands people and less by profiteers.


to get an overall majority you would have to get around 44% of the vote. whats the highest lab have ever got in an opinion poll. from memory its 30% about a year ago and subsequent polls showed that to be of the rogue variety! plus under the current electoral system you need a lot of candidates with a strong local profile. labour are currently proclaiming proudly that they will  (likely for the first time  )  run at least ONE person in every constituncy. so pat`s sneering had some validity.

`not motivated by vested interests`: you are aware they are physically linked to the union movement!
Hidalgo
(2,114 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 16:27
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Labour have only done very well in two elections. Once in the 20s  (and I cant think of the other occasion off the top of my head ) . The next election after garnering a considerable vote they slipped straight back. Very inconsistent. A problem they have also had is not enough quality candidates to run when support for them is high.  (ie they may have some support in a constituency but no viable candidate in said constituency ) . If FF were not getting enough seats  (even in good times )  to enter government unaided by another party then it`s hard to imagine Labour doing so in the foreseeable future. As has been mentioned Irish voters tend to stray very little from the centre. The current political situation would have to worsen significantly  (for both FF and FG )  for Labour to benefit enough.

I have a strange gut feeling that Labour and SF could form some kind of pact. Politicians will often put differences aside if power is the end result.
So Called Weaker County
(1,194 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 16:30
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
I don`t think anyone could actually belive that Labour could get 83 seats.

However, what is a more realistic target  (although still improbable )  is that Labour could form a Government as the largest party in that grouping.

I can`t see that happening however. At this moment, I intend voting Labour in the next election. I always have to laugh when I see posts mocking the exploits of Labour when they`ve been in Government for 2 years or so out of the last twenty and those years were quite good. I think that the Labour front bench are quite impressive.

As Twiceasnice said above, it`s time to get rid of tweedledum and tweedledee.
stones_off
(2,815 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 16:41
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Originally posted by So Called Weaker County:
I don`t think anyone could actually belive that Labour could get 83 seats.

However, what is a more realistic target   (although still improbable  )   is that Labour could form a Government as the largest party in that grouping.

I can`t see that happening however. At this moment, I intend voting Labour in the next election. I always have to laugh when I see posts mocking the exploits of Labour when they`ve been in Government for 2 years or so out of the last twenty and those years were quite good. I think that the Labour front bench are quite impressive.

As Twiceasnice said above, it`s time to get rid of tweedledum and tweedledee.

Who are the labour front bench? The only people I ever see speaking on their behave are Gilmore, Burton and to a lesser extent Rabitte.
realdanbreen
(4,700 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 16:50
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Whats badly wanted is an end to all this coalition h0rsesh1t.
A Fianna Fail majority would give the Government the scope & power to get the country back on track.
twiceasnice97
(9,233 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 19:18
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Originally posted by realdanbreen:
Whats badly wanted is an end to all this coalition h0rsesh1t.
A Fianna Fail majority would give the Government the scope & power to get the country back on track.

correct,
unfortunately its a gravy train that would pull out of that station and the track only offers a one way ticket to inequality and strokes
blueblaa
(1,754 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 19:44
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Originally posted by So Called Weaker County:
I don`t think anyone could actually belive that Labour could get 83 seats.

However, what is a more realistic target   (although still improbable  )   is that Labour could form a Government as the largest party in that grouping.

I can`t see that happening however. At this moment, I intend voting Labour in the next election. I always have to laugh when I see posts mocking the exploits of Labour when they`ve been in Government for 2 years or so out of the last twenty and those years were quite good. I think that the Labour front bench are quite impressive.

As Twiceasnice said above, it`s time to get rid of tweedledum and tweedledee.

Can`t see Labour winning the necessary 41 or so seats to be the biggest party in a coalition when they are only going to run about 50 candidates . . . . especially as there are large areas of the country where they don`t have a strong organisation or strong candidates to suppot such a big growth.

 (from http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0208/1224263954592.html  )  "No final figure is available for the Labour candidates, but the party intends to contest all 43 constituencies as in 2007, when there was a total of 50 Labour candidates."

From the same article "Fine Gael ran 91 candidates in the 2007 general election and will be running 98 next time."
magpie
(3,269 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 21:36
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Originally posted by twiceasnice97:


correct,
unfortunately its a gravy train that would pull out of that station and the track only offers a one way ticket to inequality and strokes
Well,you can`t keep all of the people happy all of the time you know.As disgusting as it sounds this may be the only realistic option.
magpie
(3,269 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 21:48
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Mind you if i see those two traitors elected in Clare i`m going to be voilently sick.
jim corr-nikova
(842 Posts)
Posted: 09-Mar-2010 22:31
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Presume you are talking about the `Spring tide` in `92 when 33 Labour td`s were returned. Clare of all places returned a Labour td  (the indian among the cowboys )  for God sake. The most excitemnent in the entire history of the constituency previously was whether it would be a 3:1 FF:FG split or whether FG could make it 2:2 with about 1 1/4 quotas.
The general point being that while Labour could land surprise seats here & there, it is difficult to see how a concerted effort could lead to 40+ seats.
Although conditions are probably at the most favourable for left wing parties since `92.


Originally posted by Hidalgo:
Labour have only done very well in two elections. Once in the 20s   (and I cant think of the other occasion off the top of my head  )  . The next election after garnering a considerable vote they slipped straight back. Very inconsistent. A problem they have also had is not enough quality candidates to run when support for them is high.   (ie they may have some support in a constituency but no viable candidate in said constituency  )  . If FF were not getting enough seats   (even in good times  )   to enter government unaided by another party then it`s hard to imagine Labour doing so in the foreseeable future. As has been mentioned Irish voters tend to stray very little from the centre. The current political situation would have to worsen significantly   (for both FF and FG  )   for Labour to benefit enough.

I have a strange gut feeling that Labour and SF could form some kind of pact. Politicians will often put differences aside if power is the end result.
ballygowan
(1,987 Posts)
Posted: 10-Mar-2010 00:25
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Originally posted by carryharry:
why is it so unrealistic to think labour can form a majority goverment

Mainly because some of their policies are clearly insane, for example they were opposed to the 8% cut in social welfare in last year`s budget. Mental.
Avondhu abu
(1,215 Posts)
Posted: 10-Mar-2010 09:39
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
But Labour have such wonderful talent in their ranks.
Young fresh candidates like Joe Costello  ( 65 ) 
Kathleen Lynch  (57 )  Liz McManus  ( 63 )  Is she still getting tax relief for the maintenance of her hosue in Bray ?
And of course that up and coing younfg star from the West Michael D O Higgins.

Roll on the Revolution
Abruzzi Spur
(1,083 Posts)
Posted: 10-Mar-2010 10:27
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Originally posted by magpie:
Mind you if i see those two traitors elected in Clare i`m going to be voilently sick.

Uou have no idea unfortunately how it works here. Ennistymon voted 82% FF in June 09 ffs. I wouldn`t be surprised if both are returned sadly. Clare people naively equate Patriotism with voting Fianna Fail.
twiceasnice97
(9,233 Posts)
Posted: 10-Mar-2010 10:58
Quote   Edit   Delete   Report Post   Post Reply
Originally posted by ballygowan:


Mainly because some of their policies are clearly insane, for example they were opposed to the 8% cut in social welfare in last year`s budget. Mental.

you have got to be kidding me.
when we are being run by a shower of economic illiterates and gross incompetents on the make the comparison doesn`t cut it.

the economy was already booming when labour left office in 1997. 1000s and 1000s of real jobs in manufacturing and other entreprises were being create d.
all the soldiers had to do was steer the ship, keep control of the public finances and prevent inflation through encouraging saving etc so that we would remain competitive.

instead they handed out money left right and centre and directed every spare shilling in the country into investment in housebuilding and hotels and other inflationary measures and the spent multi multi millions on vanity projects left right and centre.
the net effect of which is what we see today.
an uncompetitive economy, with a vast over supply of houses and a massive part of the work force unemployed because they were sucked into a non productive area of the economy.

in other words they did every single thing you could possibly think of wrong.

again the question remains, why is the bar set so high for the opposition and so low for fianna fail?

First 1 2 Last
Select a page:   Page 1 of 2
"Speak Out!" Home  |  Topic Listing  |  Post New Topic  |  Post Reply
Content Zone
‘We talk just like lions, but we sacrifice like lambs…’.
Whatever Happened to….
Anyone you know in your club?
Bin Tags Don't Make a County
‘Some a’ Dem’ Lads are only Dow-en for the Showers….’
Heavenly Hurling: How the Gods pass their time...
GAA Time and Real Time
Saint Patrick and the camogie princesses
Keats and Chapman at the Munster Final
Mass, the Mater, ‘The Dergvale’ and Mullingar…

More "Content Zone" Topics >>


Speak Out!

More "Speak Out!" Topics >>

There are 10,277 members signed up to anfearrua.com
All times are Dublin, Ireland. Always here... with the best in GAA discussion and comment! © An Fear Rua, 2000 - 2026
Bookmark AFR  |  Make AFR your home page About Us  |  Privacy Policy  |  Terms of Use [ Top of Page ]